Show Notes
Through the summer I’m reposting throwback episodes, and today I’m resharing an episode from my old podcast, Pope Francis Generation, where Dominic and I spoke with Brad Jersak. Brad Jersak is the Dean of Theology & Culture at St. Stephen’s University in New Brunswick, Canada, and editor in chief of Clarion-Journal.com. He is also the author or coauthor of a number of nonfiction and fiction books, including the More Christlike series. I first came across Brad’s work several years ago when a friend shared a video of his talk “The Gospel in Chairs.” I’ve watched it dozens of times since then and am still sharing it with others. It is one of the most compelling proclamations of the kerygma that I’ve ever heard. Then a few years ago I read Brad’s book, “Out of the Embers: Faith After the Great Deconstruction.” The book was healing for me and helped me navigate my own struggles trying to exist in a Church that has harmed me and people I care about. It’s a book I’ve returned to often in my conversations with folks who are going through deconstruction or have been spiritually abused. In this conversation, we talk about this book and discuss what it looks like to follow Jesus in the midst of suffering and trauma, even when the harm is coming from the Church. I’m excited to share it with you again! Two quick announcements before we jump into the episode! First, Sarah Carter (from Pope Leo Weekly and Recovering Catholic) and I are doing a new project together, The Leo Seminar: a space where people could read Pope Leo’s actual words, in community, without an ideological agenda. Sarah and I believe that striving for integrity is more important than having the right answers; dialogue and curiosity are more important than ideological purity; unity in diversity is more important than uniformity; “truth is not a territory to be defended, but a good to be shared” (Magnifica Humanitas 25); and “realities are greater than ideas” (Evangelii Gaudium231). The Leo Seminar exists for anyone who wants to step into a process of collective study and discernment instead of consuming “hot takes.” In this seminar, you will spend twelve weeks digging into primary texts, guided discussion, and honestly wrestling with what Pope Leo is actually saying and where he’s leading the Church. You won’t leave with a verdict handed to you, but you’ll have the opportunity to form your own conclusions in a community of people who take the questions as seriously as you do. People who are willing to undertake this kind of slow and serious formation will be agents of renewal in the Church, more equipped to proclaim the Gospel in the modern world. The Leo Seminar is a small group online seminar starting on Friday, September 4 at 12:00 (ET). The group will meet every week for 90 minutes, for 12 consecutive weeks. Sarah and Paul will lead each discussion, and we will have occasional special guests, including Pope Leo’s biographer, Elise Ann Allen! Registration closes this Friday. For more details, visit catholicthirdspace.com Also, registration is still open for my next round of spiritual abuse workshops. This is an online workshop focused on recognizing, preventing, and responding to spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. This workshop is for: * Individuals trying to better understand their experiences of spiritual abuse in the Church * Clergy and lay leaders interested in safeguarding their communities from spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience * Therapists or spiritual directors working with clients who have been spiritually abused This workshop will help you: * Recognize and prevent spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Church * Know the symptoms of spiritual abuse, religious trauma, and moral injury * Better understand and respond to abusive systems in the Church This is a live online workshop that meets in a small group over the course of five weeks. The workshops begin next week, so sign up now! Visit catholicthirdspace.com for more details. LINKS: The Leo S
More from Third Space Podcast
Thank you, Marco for this great conversation about the importance of Amoris Laetita. Articles we referenced: Pope Leo XIV Opening Speechhttps://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/speeches/2026/october/documents/20261007-anniversario-amoris-laetitia.html Cardinal Pablo Virgilio David’s addresshttps://www.amorislaetitia.va/content/dam/amorislaetitia/12-october/al-david-eng-original.pdf Archbishop Timothy Costelloe’s addresshttps://www.amorislaetitia.va/content/dam/amorislaetitia/9-october/al-costelloe-eng-original.pdf Bishop Erik Varden’s "Laetitiae Amor” articlehttps://coramfratribus.com/life-illumined/laetitiae-amor/
Thank you Brad Klingele, Marco, Rachel Amiri, Theresa Westergard, ElizabethMuhleisen, and many others for tuning into my live video with Sarah Carter and Hendro Munsterman! Join me for my next live video in the app. Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
I’ve been really enjoying The Moral Revolution Podcast with Laura Segafredo and Tony Annett, especially their ability to explain the histories and differences between socialism, liberalism, social democracy, and Catholic Social Teaching. Also, it’s an election year and, living in Michigan with Abdul El-Sayed running for Senate, I’ve seen renewed use of the word “Socialism” and rhetoric about how Catholics can’t be Socialists. So I wanted to have Tony Annett on my podcast again, this time to talk about Socialism. Anthony Annett is an economist and author whose work sits at the intersection of political economy, democracy, and moral philosophy. He spent two decades at the International Monetary Fund, including as speechwriter to two Managing Directors. He holds a Ph.D. in economics from Columbia University and a B.A. and an M.Litt from Trinity College Dublin. He is also a member of the College of Fellows of the Dominican School of Philosophy and Theology. He helped organize Ethics in Action — an initiative that met regularly at the Vatican and brought together representatives of the major world religions alongside economists, development experts, philosophers, business and labor leaders, philanthropists, and activists to formulate a shared moral framework for addressing major global problems. He is the author of Cathonomics: How Catholic Tradition Can Create a More Just Economy (Georgetown University Press, 2022) and Bread and Ballots: Why Democracy Needs Economic Justice to Thrive (forthcoming, Georgetown University Press, 2027). He is also a co-editor of Ethics in Action for Sustainable Development (Columbia University Press, 2022) and a contributor to The Age of Fraternity: An Economy for the Common Good (forthcoming). Also, I just opened up registration for my next spiritual abuse workshop. This is an online workshop focused on recognizing, preventing, and responding to spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. This workshop is for: * Individuals trying to better understand their experiences of spiritual abuse in the Church * Clergy and lay leaders interested in safeguarding their communities from spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience * Therapists or spiritual directors working with clients who have been spiritually abused This workshop will help you: * Recognize and prevent spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Church * Know the symptoms of spiritual abuse, religious trauma, and moral injury * Better understand and respond to abusive systems in the Church This is a live online workshop that meets in a small group over the course of five weeks, beginning on October 26. Visit here for more details: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/spiritual-abuse-workshop-november LINKS: The Moral Revolution Podcast https://moralrevolution.substack.com Tony’s book: Cathonomics: How Catholic Tradition Can Create a More Just Economyhttps://press.georgetown.edu/Book/Cathonomics Pope Francis Generation episode with Tonyhttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/interview-with-tony-annett-a-more ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life
It was great talking with Sarah Carter about Pope Leo’s catechetical series on Gaudium et Spes! We discussed the Church’s relationship with the world as well as how the Church too often squanders its credibility—and there its witness—to proclaim the common good, human dignity, and, ultimately, the Gospel. Become a paid subscriber to Third Space here: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe Subscribe to Pope Leo Weekly here: https://popeleoweekly.substack.com/subscribe “The promulgation of Gaudium et Spes recognized in this discernment an essential element of the nature of the Church, describing her pastoral character as constitutive; hence the definition of ‘pastoral Constitution.’ It is not a question of naïve optimism, but rather a renewed fidelity to the Mystery of Christ who, by becoming incarnate, chooses to share our life: He made Himself ‘like His brethren in every respect’ (Heb 2:17; cf. 4:15) and took upon Himself the consequences of sin, dying ‘as a ransom for all’ (1 Tim 2:6). This sharing in our humanity is the path that Christ calls the Church to follow; hence, the Conciliar Constitution Gaudium et Spes begins by declaring that the Church makes her own ‘the joys and the hopes, the griefs and the anxieties of the men of this age, especially those who are poor or in any way afflicted’” (GS 1).
Amoris Laetitia was a pivotal document for me in my own deconstruction away from a rigid and transactional faith to a faith grounded on the gratuitous love of God. It’s also a document that I often cite in my work to address spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Church. It has really grieved me how much this document is dismissed and maligned by so many Catholics in the US. So I’m encouraged that Leo is putting it back into the spotlight as a normative teaching for the Church. This live video has four parts * Overview of the upcoming meeting on Amoris Laetitia * Look at the four sections of Amoris that I cite in my work addressing spiritual abuse * The Communion for divorced and remarried Catholics controversy * Time for Questions and Response Thank you to everyone who joined the live discussion! You see all my notes and citations here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cLs2NXijlhM8rHzFYOaWi98OBsoSyxI-/view?usp=sharing Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.