Think Like a Librarian: Why the Reference Interview Is the Framework Data Teams Are Missing with Jenna Jordan and Amalia Child
Catalog & Cocktails: The Honest, No-BS Data PodcastShow Notes
Data teams spend enormous energy building pipelines, platforms, and governance frameworks but often skip the most fundamental step: truly understanding what people are actually asking for. In this episode, Juan and Tim sit down with data librarians Jenna Jordan and Amalia Child to explore why library science may be the missing lens for data work. At the heart of the conversation is the reference interview, a structured technique librarians use to uncover a user's "true information need," which almost never matches the first question they ask. From establishing trust and listening without judgment, to asking open-ended questions and verifying whether the need was actually met, the reference interview offers a rigorous, repeatable framework for anyone serving data users. If you've ever wondered why data projects deliver less value than expected, this episode will reframe the problem entirely and give you a practical toolkit to start closing the gap. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
More from Catalog & Cocktails: The Honest, No-BS Data Podcast
Nick Zervoudis, data product manager, trainer, and consultant at Value from Data & AI, joins Juan and Time to talk about why many data teams end up working like a service desk and what to do about it. The answer is: DO DISCOVERY! In this conversation, we cover how a service desk model breaks down when a request can’t be described in a few words, why dashboards get opened once and then forgotten, and how product thinking differs from project management in data work. We also discuss how to start doing discovery without a full transformation, and what AI does and doesn’t change about that work. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This is the takeaway episode with Nick Zervoudis, data product manager, trainer, and consultant at Value from Data & AI, joins Juan and Time to talk about why many data teams end up working like a service desk and what to do about it. The answer is: DO DISCOVERY! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mohammed Aaser, former chief data officer at McKinsey and former chief data strategy officer at Domo, recently visited Juan and shared his framework on talent in the AI era. It was incredibly insightful and we asked if he could come back to the podcast (after 5 years!) His argument is that the potential of AI will be unlocked by humans because humans understand the problems, and are driven/motivated to solve the problems. In this episode, Mohammed lays out a framework for talent in the AI era. Automation is already taking over the known, repeatable work. What remains is the unknown, and that takes people who keep learning and who take initiative. The framework plots people on two dimensions, learning and drive. You have Doers, Philosophers, Commanders, Hackers, Strategist, Innovators, Game changers and more. Topics discussed Automation and the innovation engine The known versus the unknown Two dimensions of talent The talent quadrants The multiplier effect Commanders and scaling Environments that don’t build initiative Rarity of high-potential people Investing in human potential The human mind as the limit Critical thinking through discomfort See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This is the takeaway episode with Mohammed Aaser, former chief data officer at McKinsey and former chief data strategy officer at Domo. He recently visited Juan and shared his framework on talent in the AI era. It was incredibly insightful and we asked if he could come back to the podcast (after 5 years!) His argument is that the potential of AI will be unlocked by humans because humans understand the problems, and are driven/motivated to solve the problems. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
How do leaders preserve executive trust and credibility? Dora Boussias, executive advisor and former data executive returns to the podcast to unpack this question. Her answer: protect your judgement. In this episode, Dora presents the trust equation that most leaders grew up with: expertise + track record + judgment. Dora’s point is that the equation still holds, but each part now means something different. Nobody will out-know AI, so expertise is less about what you know and more about asking the right questions and challenging assumptions. A track record is harder to read when you can’t tell whether a good result came from you or from the model. Judgment carries the most weight now, and it’s the part leaders are most likely to hand off without noticing. Topics discussed: Trust equation under AI Expertise is changing Track record is harder to read Judgment carries the most weight Decision fog Speed isn’t everything Ford’s rehiring of experienced engineers Business fundamentals matter more Alignment and accountability are cross-functional Real value is “so what” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.