
Show Notes
#280 Pam Koch reflects on what she learned from Joan Gussow, how Nutritional Ecology changed the way students think about food, and why Joan’s ideas feel even more urgent now. Moving from the history of nutrition science and the limits of reductionist research to the failures of conventional agriculture and the false promise of techno-fixes, Pam shares Joan's belief that real organic food offers a better path for both people and the planet.
https://realorganicproject.org/pam-koch-joan-gussow-nutritional-ecology-legacy
The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.
The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).
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More from Real Organic Podcast
299: Lynn Clarkson has been buying and selling organic grain since the early days of the market, and he has watched imported supply reshape the business. He believes that too much of that trade depends on certification systems that are difficult to enforce. The result, he says, is a market where fraudulent imports can undercut American organic farmers even when domestic production is financially attractive. Clarkson makes the case for rebuilding a stronger U.S. supply chain based on trust, transparency, and real enforcement.
298: Soil scientist Will Brinton has spent much of his career helping farmers understand what is happening beneath their feet. Over time, that work has led him to question the mechanistic way modern agriculture often approaches living systems. Will believes that reductionist science is valuable for measuring individual parts, but becomes limiting when those measurements are mistaken for the whole. From soil testing to nutrient-density claims, he urges farmers to resist universal prescriptions and instead pay attention to the ecology of their own place. His message is simple but demanding: nature is not a machine, and farming well requires learning how to work with what a landscape is already expressing.
297: Kendra Klein, senior scientist at Friends of the Earth, has spent years investigating the health and environmental consequences of pesticide-dependent agriculture. She argues that the influence of pesticide companies reaches far beyond the chemicals themselves; they actively shape federal policy, as well as our commonly held belief that toxic inputs are necessary if we want to feed the world. Kendra also takes a close look at the rise of regenerative agriculture and explains why she worries that the term is being used to rebrand conventional farming rather than to transform it.
296: László Barabási has spent much of his career studying complex systems, from cells to social networks. This lifelong body of work eventually led him to ask a simple question: what is food actually made of? While nutrition science has identified the components we need for energy and survival, László’s lab has documented roughly 135,000 other molecules in food that sit largely outside the traditional nutritional picture. He believes that network science could eventually help us understand these molecules and food in general (including food-related diseases) with far greater precision.
295: Chuck Benbrook returns with a close look at several legal battles involving Driscoll’s and what they may tell us about the enormous influence of the country’s dominant berry companies. He discusses pesticide concerns around schools and farm communities, allegations raised by a former company agronomist, Driscoll’s lawsuit against the food-finding platform Localize, and another legal challenge to the company’s marketing claims brought forth by Beyond Pesticides. He argues that the berry industry already knows how to reduce pesticide risks and expand organic production; the harder question is whether they will ever choose to do it.