When the Shelf Breaks: Reflections on Breaking With Faith Tradition and What Lies Beyond

Summary: In this episode of Coming Out & Beyond, Anne-Marie Zanzal is joined by her wife, Tonda McKay, and Barbara Rowlandson to answer real questions from Reddit about lesbian dating, intimacy, and relationships later in life. One question comes from a woman in her 50s who has recently embraced her lesbian identity and developed feelings for the only openly lesbian friend she knows. Unsure whether her attraction is genuine or influenced by familiarity, she wonders whether to reveal her feelings and risk changing their friendship. The hosts discuss navigating attraction, coming out to friends, and recognizing the possibility of mutual interest. The conversation also explores how to communicate sexual desires without feeling embarrassed, whether financial insecurity should prevent someone from dating women, and how much of your romantic and sexual history you should share with a partner. Along the way, Anne-Marie and Tonda reflect on ten years together and five years of marriage, highlighting the work involved in maintaining a healthy relationship. Through personal experiences, practical advice, and humor, the hosts address common uncertainties women face when exploring love and relationships later in life. Key Takeaways: Coming Out and Confessing Romantic Feelings Are Two Different Conversations When developing feelings for a longtime friend, sharing your sexual identity doesn't have to mean immediately revealing your attraction. The hosts encourage taking things one step at a time, allowing space to understand the friend's response and see how the relationship develops. Communicating Sexual Desires Requires Trust and Vulnerability Expressing what you want in bed can feel intimidating, particularly when you're afraid of rejection or disappointing your partner. The discussion emphasizes having sensitive conversations in comfortable settings, approaching new ideas with openness, and recognizing that communication is essential to healthy intimacy. Financial Insecurity Doesn't Make You Undesirable Traditional expectations about who pays for dates don't necessarily apply to relationships between women. The hosts challenge assumptions about money and dating, suggesting affordable ways to connect while emphasizing that financial circumstances don't determine someone's worth as a romantic partner. Your Relationship History Doesn't Have to Be an Open Book Not sharing every detail of your romantic or sexual past isn't automatically dishonest. The hosts explore the difference between privacy and secrecy, explaining why personal boundaries matter and how sharing meaningful experiences can help build trust without requiring a complete account of previous relationships. Long-Term Relationships Require Ongoing Effort Reflecting on their marriage, Anne-Marie and Tonda acknowledge that even loving, successful relationships involve difficult periods. Their experiences highlight the importance of honest communication, commitment, and working through challenges rather than expecting relationships to be perfect. Timestamps: (00:00) Could Her Lesbian Friend Already Have Feelings for Her? (04:35) The Reality of Maintaining a Long-Term Relationship (07:43) How to Ask Your Partner for What You Want in Bed (10:29) Navigating Vulnerability and Fear of Rejection (16:38) Can You Date Women When You're Financially Struggling? (20:40) Financial Insecurity and Feeling Desirable (28:07) A Late-Bloomer Lesbian Develops Feelings for Her Friend (31:33) Should You Come Out Before Confessing Your Crush? (37:34) How Much of Your Relationship History Should You Share? (47:17) Telling Your Partner They're Your First Sexual Experience (51:04) Finding Support Through the Authentically Us Community Links: Anne-Marie Zanzal's Website: https://annemariezanzal.com/ Authentically Us Community: https://community.annemariezanzal.com/

Content note: this episode includes discussion of conversion therapy and religious trauma. Two hundred episodes. We still can't quite believe it either. To celebrate this milestone, and National Coming Out Day, Anne-Marie Zanzal gathers three of her all-time favorite guests around the mic: her wife Tonda McKay, coach and therapist Barb Rowlandson, and coach and business consultant Anna Empey. Anne-Marie shares how the show began, with Anna nudging her for three years to start a podcast until a pandemic finally changed her mind. Then each woman tells her own coming out story, from oldest to youngest by coming out date. Tonda was a good Southern Baptist college student in 1981 when a kiss with her prayer partner sent her walking back to her dorm convinced there was no going back. Anna grew up Mormon, went through conversion therapy at BYU, and then fell in love with her friend Katelyn by accident. Barb came out at 45 after 21 years of marriage, in a small town where the news traveled faster than she did. And Anne-Marie, who took ten years to come out, remembers the Facebook group that finally gave her language for who she was, and the Nashville woman with the Southern accent who was willing to wait. Along the way, the four talk honestly about what community looked like before the internet, why "go find an old lesbian" can be hit or miss, the quiet power of the casual coming out, and why none of them care anymore who has an opinion about their queerness. If you are in the messy middle right now, take heart from one of our longtime community members, who reminded a room full of newcomers this week that it gets better. So many of the stories in this episode come back to one thing: how much harder coming out is when you are doing it alone. Authentically Us is the community Anne-Marie built so you don't have to. It's a private online space for women questioning their sexuality and coming out later in life, with live group gatherings every week, a monthly spiritual circle, and a room full of women who understand exactly where you are because they've been there too. Membership is $39 a month or $390 a year. Come find your people at https://bit.ly/Authentically-Us

What is the difference between a coach and a therapist, and how do you know which one you need? Anne-Marie Zanzal welcomes back her frequent guest and longtime business coach Anna Empey, owner of Business Inspired Solution, for an honest conversation about the kinds of support available to women coming out later in life. Both women have spent years in therapy, and both are clear that it matters. They talk about what licensed therapists do that coaches cannot, why anyone leaving a high control religion deserves a therapist who truly understands religious trauma, and how a good coach knows when to refer out. Anne-Marie shares how she resisted the word "coach" for years before becoming the first coming out coach, and how her work as a hospice chaplain taught her to sit with people without trying to fix them. They also explore the difference between group therapy and mutual support, why knowing your values makes so many decisions easier, and what to ask before you hire anyone to walk beside you. Whether you are questioning, coming out, or building a business, you will leave with a clearer sense of what support fits your life right now. If this conversation stirred something in you, This Authentic Life may be the next step. It is a 16 week cohort program for women coming out later in life, and you will meet with the same small community of women every week, women who come to know your story, along with Barb and me. The October Cohort meets Wednesdays at 7:00 PM Central on Zoom, beginning October 7. Enrollment includes two private calls with me, membership in our Authentically Us community, and immediate access to the Maybe I Am Not Straight course and the Catalyst Chapter, so you can begin before the first session. Enrollment for this cohort closes October 6. You can learn more and enroll here: https://annemariezanzal.com/this-authentic-life-community-course/ If you are building a business or ready to grow a side project into something more, Anna Empey's Deep Dive is a wonderful place to begin. It is the same process I started with eight years ago, and it helped me build a business that reflects my values and sounds like me. Anna has a couple of Deep Dive spaces left this year, along with two openings for six month private business coaching. Learn more here: https://businessinspiredsolutions.co/ Join us next week for the 200th episode of Coming Out & Beyond! We are celebrating this podcasting milestone with Anne-Marie, Tonda, Barb and Anna. We'll be reflecting on some of our favourite episodes, coming out stories, and chatting about what's in store for the future!

This week on Coming Out & Beyond it is the three of us again: Anne-Marie, dating and relationship guide Barb Rowlandson, and Anne-Marie's wife and resident realist, Tonda McKay. Twice a month we set the dating talk to the side and answer the questions that come in from all of you. This time they gathered around one tender thing, which is how you actually step into queer community when you are starting at the very beginning. The women who wrote in were standing at the door and could not quite walk through it. One had not dated in decades and no longer recognized her own body. One kept hearing the voice that said no one wants a woman who looks like me. One had driven past the building twice without ever going inside. If any of that feels familiar, you are in good company here. We talk about starting with friendship rather than rushing toward a girlfriend, about finding the rooms that already bring you joy, about volunteering and pickleball and Sapphic dances where you can happily lose yourself in the crowd. Barb speaks to the freeze response that shows up when belonging has never felt safe, and why the fear is real and still worth walking through. And because it would not be us without a little mischief, Tonda and Anne-Marie tell the story of the photograph that finally moved things past the flirting stage, ten years ago now. The heart of it is this. You do not need an instruction manual, and there is no wrong way to begin. If you are here, you have already started. If you have a question you would like us to talk through on the show, you can reach Anne-Marie at annemariezanzal.com or send Barb or Anne-Marie a message on social. And if you are longing for real community as the days grow shorter, This Authentic Life, our group program that runs for sixteen weeks, begins in early October. It is our last cohort of 2026, and there is a place in it for you: https://annemariezanzal.com/this-authentic-life-community-course/ 🌈 Send in your questions. Email to [email protected], or message Barb or Anne-Marie on social, and they will answer on the show.

Note for Listeners: This episode contains explicit language and conversation about sex and sexual pleasure. Listener discretion is advised. What if the best sex of your life is still ahead of you? In this episode of Coming Out and Beyond, Anne-Marie Zanzal and dating coach Barbara Rowlandson sit down with Susan Bratton, the intimacy expert to millions and one of the most prolific and widely read sex educators in the world. Susan has spent more than two decades teaching the kind of sex education most of us were never given, the kind rooted in pleasure rather than shame or silence, and she brings all of it to this conversation with warmth, science, and a whole lot of joy. Together they talk about what it means to come home to your own body, often for the first time. So many women arrive in midlife having only known sex that was performative, dutiful, and centered on someone else. Susan offers another way. She walks us through calming the nervous system with the soulmate embrace, moving out of performance and into sensation, and understanding why a woman's arousal is slow, responsive, and worth every unhurried minute. This is an honest, tender, sometimes very funny conversation about pleasure as something sacred rather than shameful, about the body as something to be understood rather than judged, and about why, for so many Sapphic women, the intimacy they find after coming out is the most connected they have ever known. If sex was ever framed for you as a duty or a source of shame, this episode is an invitation to imagine something better. Pleasure is a skill. It is learnable at any age. And you are far more capable of it than you were ever allowed to believe. Want to learn more about Susan and Better Lover, her library of resource materials for improving sexual pleasure? Visit her website at https://susanbratton.com/ The toys that Susan highlighted in the episode can be found at https://drivedesire.com/ Jamie McCartney's Great Wall of Vulva project, mentioned in this episode, can be found here: https://www.thegreatwallofvulva.com/