How China Steals America’s Secrets | David Shedd & Andrew Badger
Secrets and Spies Podcast: Espionage | Global Issues | Current AffairsShow Notes
David Shedd served as acting director of the Defense Intelligence Agency; Andrew Badger is a former DIA case officer now teaching state-sponsored espionage at Oxford. Together they've written The Great Heist: China's Epic Campaign to Steal America's Secrets. Matt talks with them about how the Ministry of State Security evolved from a backwater service into what they argue is the world's most powerful intelligence agency; how Beijing replaced Cold War recruitment tradecraft with guanxi-based social obligation and what the authors call "crowd-sourced espionage"; how Made in China 2025 functioned as a national collection priority list driving theft across defense, tech, and critical infrastructure; and why Volt and Salt Typhoon represent not an espionage story but pre-positioning for war—with kill switches already embedded in America's power grid and telecommunications backbone.
More from Secrets and Spies Podcast: Espionage | Global Issues | Current Affairs
Two-time Pulitzer Prize winner Joby Warrick covered national security for the Washington Post for nearly three decades. In his new book, The Jackal, he turns to Ilich Ramírez Sánchez—Carlos the Jackal—the Venezuelan who in the 1970s and '80s was the most famous terrorist in the world.
A quick programming note: this weekend’s episode will be out on Sunday, October 18, rather than our usual Saturday release. We’re taking an extra day in the edit on Matt’s conversation with national security reporter Joby Warrick about Carlos the Jackal, the Venezuelan-born militant who became one of the Cold War’s most wanted men. Thanks for your patience, and we’ll see you Sunday.
Chris and Matt break down the week's biggest intelligence and geopolitical stories: what really happened at RAF Fairford, the intelligence failure behind the FlyDubai hijacking, allegations of treason against a former BND chief, and a major data leak at the FBI.
Sam Lichtenstein, director of analysis at the global risk intelligence firm RANE, returns to walk Chris through RANE's 2025–2035 decade forecast: a multipolar world in which no great power has the will or the means to set the rules.
Every week, Russia’s Security Council publishes a digest of world events that, journalist Dave Troy argues, reveals more about the Kremlin’s worldview than objective reality. In conversation with Chris, Troy explains how Moscow sees the war in Ukraine as part of a broader struggle over the global order—and how it seeks to export that worldview through proxies, information warfare, conspiracy theories, and ideas about sovereignty.