HortWeek Podcast

Lord Heseltine: "You’re just playing in toy town”

HortWeek Podcast

Show Notes

Lord Heseltine tells the story of the birth of the European Space Agency. Why post-Apollo, when the US was spending £1.2 billion a year on space, the whole of Europe was spending just £200 million. Why the birth of ESA was driven by the self-interest of three major countries. Why the US general with a $29 billion budget for the Star Wars project wanted to invest in Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh. Why, the idea that Britain could compete alone with the technologies that were accumulated and available to the American capitalist system was “simply laughable”. Why “being European is not selling out British interests”. And why Margaret Thatcher told him: “If you want to get on and put your budget into this, you can, but you're not getting any of mine."

Join Alice and Lord Heseltine as they pick apart the negotiating contrivances and the wheeling and dealing to circumnavigate “turkeys not voting for Christmas” that ultimately put European space on the map.

Contributors: Alice Bunn, President of UKspace Dr Alice Bunn OBE FIMechE FRAeS CEng | LinkedIn UKspace: Overview | LinkedIn

Lord Heseltine, Member of the House of Lords

Key topics covered:

Creation of the European Space Agency (ESA) US "Star Wars" program and brain drain Geopolitical case for European R&D collaboration Impact of Brexit on science and technology

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

More from HortWeek Podcast

Oct 22, 2026

While one aspect of the peat-free debate has sparked fierce argument, surprisingly little rigorous science exists to settle it. "Is peat-free growing media really more 'sustainable' than using peat?

Oct 16, 2026

In this special series, HortWeek columnist and garden industry consultant Neville Stein brings his Whatever Happened To... feature to the HortWeek podcast, exploring the stories and legacies of once-great horticulture businesses.

Oct 8, 2026

"Modern day plant hunter" Rod Richards or New World Plants has banked decades of experience in bringing plants to market and knowing what works.

Oct 1, 2026

This September, Northern Roots launched the first phase of what will become the UK's largest urban farm and eco-park, transforming 160 acres of underused land in Oldham into a visitor destination, community resource and living testbed for tackling some of the country's biggest social and environmental challenges.

Sep 24, 2026

Jamie Butterworth has gained a higher media profile in recent years with stints on TV presenting for RHS Chelsea Flower Show and Gardeners' World.

See all episodes →