#160 Rethinking Valuation: Why Customer Metrics Matter More

Smart leaders. Stalled change. Here's why: most leadership teams say they "support" customer experience — but support isn't the same as action. It's been over a dozen years since "Outside In" was written and Megan Burns shared the six CX disciplines as their working model. I was curious about what has changed since those days - what would she include today that wasn't in the book. In this episode, we dig into why "we need leadership support" is the wrong ask, what actually moves change forward (funding, policy shifts, real decisions), and why that truth exists alongside a harder one: leadership support is genuinely difficult to earn, and change leaders still need a real strategy to get it. We go behind the scenes of the 6 Disciplines customer experience maturity model from Outside In — why it was built on behavior instead of attitude, and which disciplines companies most often fake their way through (customer understanding, governance, and culture top the list). We also unpack engagement strategy: how to find the "power core" inside an organization, build coalitions, and win the small battles that make bigger change possible. And we close with the one question every CX leader should ask before diagnosing any gaps: what are we already doing right? Show Notes 🔗 Episode 41 — How Do We Activate Employees to Deliver Consistently Good, Strategically Amazing Experiences? https://bit.ly/4gUlJWB 📖 Book: Outside In https://amzn.to/4xcilMJ 🔗 Connect with Megan Burns https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganburns/ 🔗 CX Index — Forrester https://www.forrester.com/research/cx-index/ Topics covered: Why "leadership support" is the wrong ask — and what real action looks like The paradox: support is hard to get, but that can't become the excuse for inaction Building an internal engagement strategy: finding the "power core" and building coalitions The origin story of the 6 Disciplines maturity model (built at Forrester, 2010) Why "behavior, not attitude" was the core design principle The 6 disciplines: Strategy, Customer Understanding, Measurement, Design, Governance, Culture Where companies most often perform "superficially" (and think they're excelling) Why leadership and change management were intentionally left out of the original model — and what Megan would do differently today The one diagnostic question to ask before any CX gap analysis

Technology can help organizations move faster.

Why Good Ideas Get Blocked: The Trust Equation for Change Leaders with Charlie Green It pairs naturally with the thumbnail, names the recognizable framework, and makes the change-leadership application explicit. WHY GOOD IDEAS GET BLOCKED: THE TRUST EQUATION FOR CHANGE LEADERS WITH CHARLIE GREEN Why do strong ideas—with solid evidence and a compelling business case—still get blocked? Because leading change takes more than credibility, data, and ROI. It requires trust. In this episode, I’m joined by Charlie Green, founder of Trusted Advisor Associates and co-author of the landmark book The Trusted Advisor, to explore how the Trust Equation applies to change leadership. Charlie explains why the framework should really be called the “Trustworthiness Equation” and breaks down its four components: credibility, reliability, intimacy, and self-orientation. We discuss why leaders often overestimate the rational elements of trust and underestimate the power of emotional safety, genuine attention, and making people feel heard. I also share a costly leadership mistake from my banking career: I failed to fully explore one stakeholder’s reservations about a major initiative, and the resulting resistance sent our work sideways for three years. If you lead change without direct authority—or struggle to secure support for ideas you know can make a difference—this conversation will help you approach resistance, influence, and stakeholder relationships differently. IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL LEARN: • Why trustworthiness matters more than simply asking others to trust you • How the four components of the Trust Equation work • Why intimacy and self-orientation can matter more than credentials and reliability • How fear prevents leaders from asking the necessary follow-up question • Why “Tell me more” can transform resistance into collaboration • How to prepare thoroughly while remaining open to other perspectives • What it means to “detach from the outcome” • Why people need to feel heard before they will support change • How an overlooked stakeholder concern can derail an initiative • Why ROI and other rational measures rarely tell the whole story SHOW NOTES :

Most change efforts don't fail because of bad strategy. They fail because the people leading them are asking the wrong question. Seth Godin has written 21 bestselling books. He's built movements, challenged industries, and spent decades studying why some ideas spread and others die quietly in conference rooms. In this conversation, Seth cuts straight to what most change leaders get wrong — and what to do instead. You'll walk away with: A clearer way to think about strategy that actually holds up under pressure Why chasing ROI may be the thing killing your credibility — and what to say instead How storytelling works (and what has to happen after you tell it) What it really takes to lead change when you don't have the authority to force it This one stayed with me long after we recorded it. I think it'll do the same for you. 🎧 This Is Strategy by Seth Godin — linked in the show notes.

What if the real goal of customer experience isn't delivering better experiences at all? In this episode of The Trusted Guide Podcast, Mark Slatin sits down with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy and one of the most influential thinkers in customer experience and business strategy. Joe argues that we're entering the next stage of economic value creation—one where organizations create value not merely through products, services, or experiences, but by helping people become who they aspire to be. At the heart of this conversation is a powerful idea: transformation requires identity change. Together, Mark and Joe explore what this means for customer experience professionals, business leaders, and anyone responsible for leading change. If customers are ultimately seeking a better version of themselves, how should that change the way we design experiences, build relationships, and measure success? And what can change leaders learn from this insight when trying to influence stakeholders and drive organizational transformation? In this episode, you'll learn: • Why transformation is fundamentally about identity • The difference between experiences and transformations • What organizations miss when they focus only on customer satisfaction • How understanding identity can create deeper customer loyalty and engagement • Why successful change leadership requires helping people become, not just do Whether you're leading customer experience, organizational change, or business transformation, this conversation will challenge you to rethink what people are really seeking—and how leaders can help them get there.