Show Notes
Did you know True Criminals is on Patreon? You can listen ad free and enjoy exclusive bonus content, just like the episode you’re listening to right now.
Please enjoy, and if you’d like to become a Patreon member, head over to:https://www.patreon.com/truecriminals
We welcome Kerry Daynes back to True Criminals for the second of two conversations with one of Britain’s leading consultant forensic psychologists.
Last time, we explored Kerry’s encounters with serial killer Dennis Nilsen. This time, the focus is Kerry herself and her extraordinary career spent sitting opposite some of the most dangerous and complex people in the criminal justice system.
Kerry takes us back to Wakefield Prison in 1996, when, aged just 21, she entered an intimidating and deeply misogynistic environment to begin her career in forensic psychology. She recalls interviewing men convicted of rape and murder, being deliberately locked in a cell with a killer, and learning how to manage fear, authority and control.
There are darker stories and some unexpectedly funny ones, including the convicted double murderer who repeatedly dropped his prosthetic eye into Kerry’s tomato soup. Learning not to react became a lesson in psychology she still uses today.
Kerry explains what forensic psychologists actually do, how she builds rapport with dangerous offenders without becoming their audience, and why understanding someone’s behaviour is very different from excusing it. She also discusses her approach of “rational compassion” and the importance of remaining authentic when dealing with people capable of extreme violence.
We hear about offenders who successfully deceived her, cases that got under her skin, and the day a man she was assessing stabbed her in the stomach with a kebab skewer, an incident she describes as a bad day, but not the worst of her career.
The conversation also turns to two criminals previously examined on True Criminals: conman Mark Acklom and Charles Bronson, now Charles Salvador. Kerry has worked professionally with Salvador and gave evidence at his public parole hearing. She offers her perspective on the man behind the mythology and considers how decades of imprisonment have shaped him.
Finally, Kerry talks candidly about losing her hearing, why it led her to step away from expert witness work, and why forensic psychology remains not simply a career, but a vocation.
SUPPORT TRUE CRIMINALS
Listen ad free and access bonus content and our full catalogue on Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/truecriminals
As an independent podcast, we rely on listener support. You can also donate via PayPal:https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=YQVFJR5766BJE
FOLLOW TRUE CRIMINALS
Instagram: @true.criminalsTikTok: @truecriminalspodcast
FOLLOW MARTIN BRUNT
Twitter/X: @skymartinbrunt
Discover more about Martin’s career and the cases he has covered in his book, No One Got Cracked Over the Head for No Reason: Dispatches from a Crime Reporter.
Buy Martin’s book:https://amzn.eu/d/g1WisSY
FOLLOW HELEN FOSPERO
Instagram: @helenfospero
Listen to Helen’s podcast, The Convex Conversation:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-convex-conversation/id1510209575
PRODUCTION CREDITS
True Criminals is produced by Audio Bleach Global.
Website:https://www.audiobleachglobal.com/truecriminals
Executive Producer: Lee MannProducer: Russell BarnesAudio Production: BLEACHEDMusic Composition: BLEACHEDArtwork: BLEACHED Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
More from True Criminals
After more than five decades behind bars, Charles Bronson is once again fighting for his freedom. With another crucial parole hearing approaching, True Criminals hosts Martin Brunt and Helen Fospero discuss the latest developments in the extraordinary case of one of Britain's most notorious prisoners.
In February 1990, seven-year-old Rachel Watts went out on her roller skates to buy sweets near her home in Brighton. On her way back, she encountered Russell Bishop — the man acquitted three years earlier of murdering Karen Hadaway and Nicola Fellows. Bishop abducted Rachel, drove her to Devil's Dyke, sexually assaulted and strangled her, and left her for dead.
Did you know True Criminals is on Patreon?
In October 1986, nine-year-old best friends Karen Hadaway and Nicola Fellows disappeared after going out to play near their homes on the Moulsecoomb estate in Brighton. The following afternoon, their bodies were discovered in Wild Park.
In this second of two special episodes of True Criminals, journalists Helen Fospero and Martin Brunt are joined once again by investigative journalist Clare Rewcastle Brown, whose reporting helped expose Malaysia’s extraordinary 1MDB scandal and the disappearance of billions of dollars from a state investment fund.