The MAD Podcast: How AI Gets Built — with Matt Turck

What Happens When Billions of AI Agents Hit Your Database? (Andy Pavlo)

The MAD Podcast: How AI Gets Built — with Matt Turck

Show Notes

AI agents are becoming the biggest users of databases: creating them, querying them, and sometimes deleting them. Andy Pavlo, Carnegie Mellon's database professor and now VP of Database Research at ClickHouse, explains what changes when billions of agents hit the data layer, and why most of the AI world's mental model of databases stopped at vector databases and RAG.

Andy's CMU courses taught a generation of engineers (and, it turns out, the AI models); he writes the year-in-review on databases the whole industry reads; and this summer he joined ClickHouse to found ClickHouse Labs. We cover why vector databases were "just an index," what it means for an agent to create a database, why agents could mean 10 to 100x more queries, whether files or databases should hold an agent's memory, how text-to-SQL went from 60% to 99.5% accuracy, why 60% of open-source databases now have commits from coding agents, and what ten years of self-driving database research taught him. Plus ClickHouse, Postgres, the vector/graph/GPU database verdicts, Larry Ellison, and the Wu-Tang Clan.

Disclosure: FirstMark, where Matt is a General Partner, is an investor in ClickHouse.

(00:00) Cold open & Intro (01:21) From vector databases and RAG to the age of agents (04:09) Neon's stat: agents create 80% of databases? (07:25) Why agents keep deleting production databases (08:19) Guardrails: the toddler-and-stairs rule (10:51) The four eras of database volume: 10–100x more queries (15:10) Agent memory: files vs. databases ("everything is a database") (18:24) Which database do AI models recommend? The new SEO (19:25) "It cites me back to myself" (23:14) MCP for databases, and text-to-SQL from 60% to 99.5% (27:09) Trust an agent the way you'd trust a junior developer (27:47) Can AI build an entire database? Opus 4 and the CMU projects (29:57) 60% of open-source databases now have AI commits (30:43) Ten years of self-driving databases, Peloton to today (33:52) What LLMs changed: 85% of the tuning in 15 minutes (35:42) Should anyone still study databases? (38:27) Free CMU courses, the DJ, and the Wu-Tang final exam (42:09) Why start a research lab inside ClickHouse? (45:53) Why ClickHouse looked like vaporware in 2016 (47:46) What makes ClickHouse fast: columns, vectors, Snowflake's lineage (52:22) Why Databricks, Snowflake and ClickHouse all added Postgres (58:15) Vector, graph and GPU databases: thumbs up or down? (1:08:34) Is the database market stagnant? "A cheetah on cocaine in a Ferrari" (1:10:14) The relational model is arithmetic; SQL as the new assembly (1:11:59) Larry Ellison, Linux, and why databases still matter

More from The MAD Podcast: How AI Gets Built — with Matt Turck

Oct 22, 2026

Mistral AI is back in the frontier AI race. Mistral Large 4, nicknamed “Le Chonk,” is a 1-trillion-parameter open-weight model, trained in two months on 3,800 GPUs in Mistral’s own European datacenters — and independently rated the best open model outside China alongside Meta’s Muse Spark Open. After a year when open-weight AI meant DeepSeek, Kimi, Qwen and GLM, October brought a wave of Western open models, with Mistral at the front of it. Pierre Stock, Mistral’s VP of Science and first employee, walks through how the model was built: mixture-of-experts explained, what Mistral borrowed from DeepSeek, reinforcement learning at scale on coding, cyber, finance and chip design, why the RL run is still going, the model that pinged its own trainer from inside the sandbox, open weights vs cyber refusals, why 10-trillion-parameter models are coming, and Mistral Large 5, already in pretraining.

Oct 15, 2026

What is Jev? TypeSafe’s Jev is a new kind of AI model, a “decision model,” that doesn’t write text. It makes fast, cheap, calibrated decisions inside software, and it has taken the AI world by storm: within weeks of launch it became the most copied model in AI, with OpenAI, Cloudflare, Amazon and Databricks all shipping their own versions, and TypeSafe just raised an $870 million Series A at a $7.5 billion valuation. In this episode, Jev’s creator Diogo Almeida, co-inventor of RLHF at OpenAI and now CEO of TypeSafe, explains Jev in plain English: what a “System One” or decision model actually is, why ChatGPT-style language models can’t be trusted inside software (“95% Einstein, 5% Mr. Bean”), how RLHF and RLVR created the problem, what RLCD (reinforcement learning for calibrated decisions) does differently, where the training data comes from, which models Jev is built on, why “just a classifier” is a compliment, and why he calls pre-training “a giant dumpster fire of wasting resources.”

Oct 1, 2026

This summer, AI agents broke out of their test sandboxes at every major lab and hacked real companies, and the safety tests didn't see it coming. Eric Ho is the co-founder and CEO of Goodfire, the Anthropic-backed mechanistic interpretability lab whose new paper, "Models Know When They're Reward Hacking," found that top open-source AI models cheat on agent tasks up to 96% of the time, that a clear "cheating" signal exists inside the model, and that cheap activation probes can catch it, including hacks that chain-of-thought monitors miss. In this conversation, Eric explains reward hacking in plain terms (AI agents as "amoral students with a mostly absent teacher"), why reinforcement learning turned a known problem into a crisis, why chain-of-thought monitoring is fading as models start to think in "neuralese," and why nobody, including the people who build them, understands how these models work.

Sep 24, 2026

Everyone talks about GPUs. Almost nobody talks about the layer that feeds them. Renen Hallak is the founder & CEO of VAST Data — the $30 billion company powering xAI and some of the world's biggest AI clouds — and he sits in the hidden layer of the AI stack.

Sep 10, 2026

What happens when AI begins improving itself, and then turns that intelligence toward science? Richard Socher, pioneering AI researcher and CEO and co-founder of Recursive, joins Matt Turck to explore the vision behind his new book, The Eureka Machine. They discuss why scientific progress may be slowing, how large language models can learn the hidden languages of proteins and biology, and why simulations, verifiers and autonomous experiments could unlock superhuman AI capabilities. The conversation covers recursive self-improvement, AI drug discovery and cancer research, hallucination as creativity, virtual cells, self-driving laboratories, agent swarms, the AI Economist, Recursive’s plans, and the compute and data needed to build an AI scientist that never stops learning—and may eventually discover what humans cannot.

See all episodes →