From Chickens to Canines: Simon Prins on Modernizing Animal Training with Technology
Precision Animal TrainingShow Notes
In this episode, Kirsten Kraljevic and Dr. Bob Bailey sit down with Simon Prins, a pioneering animal trainer from the Netherlands. Simon shares his remarkable journey, from his first encounters with Bob Bailey to the challenges of introducing science-based training methods in Europe. He explains the shift from traditional approaches to more efficient, data-driven techniques that are transforming the field. Key topics include the importance of terminal maneuvers, the innovative use of laser guidance in training, and the value of sharing best practices across organizations. Simon highlights persistence, belief, and continuous learning as he reflects on the gradual but steady evolution of animal training technology. He makes a strong case for transparency, collaboration, and hands-on experience to raise industry standards, while offering practical insights on overcoming resistance to change and spreading evidence-based knowledge worldwide.
Check Out Simon's Blog Key Listener Takeaways
1. The Power of Openness and Collaboration Sharing knowledge and breaking down barriers between police, military, and private security organizations is essential for advancing animal training. Simon stresses that real progress happens when trainers openly discuss mistakes, exchange ideas, and learn from one another. 2. Continuous Change and Self-Improvement The best trainers are those willing to persist through challenges while staying open to changing their own behaviors and beliefs. Simon describes his own years-long journey away from traditional punitive methods toward positive reinforcement, underscoring the need for ongoing curiosity and adaptability. 3. Hands-On Experience Trumps Theory Alone True expertise requires translating knowledge into mechanical skill through real interaction with animals. Simon points out that while theory matters, nothing replaces practical work, such as training chickens, to develop effective methods.
Quick Training Lessons from the Episode Here are the key takeaways that Simon Prins and the hosts want you to carry forward: 1. Real progress comes from stepping outside your comfort zone and being willing to change your own behavior, even when it's uncomfortable. 2. Openly sharing knowledge and experiences across police, security, and private trainers is critical for improving the entire field and delivering better outcomes. 3. Efficient training blends the best of theory with hands-on practice, turning ideas into reliable mechanical skills with animals. 4. Quality control and honest self-assessment are vital. Don't hide mistakes; learn from them and help others avoid repeating them. 5. Perseverance matters. Spreading new ideas and overcoming resistance takes time and belief, but it makes a lasting difference. 6. Stay curious and keep learning. If you're not willing to adapt and grow, you're holding yourself and the industry back. 7. The most powerful lessons in animal training, and in life, often come from simple tools, persistent experimentation, and the willingness to fail and try again. This episode is packed with wisdom for anyone serious about modern, ethical, and effective animal training. Simon's perspective reminds us that the path forward is built on collaboration, humility, and relentless curiosity.
More from Precision Animal Training
Kirsten has a way of describing how modern dog training grew up, and it comes in three phases. First the scientific one, when the Brelands' and Baileys' work came through the chicken workshops and the field found out there was a science underneath it. Then the professional one, when it turned out that loving animals is not a business plan. And now the ethical one. Don Hanson has lived all three of them, and because he is a prolific writer, he wrote them down while they were happening. Thirty years of this field's history exists in his archive whether the field asked for it or not.
Mike Wood interviewed Shelley for a job in the Florida Keys on a glass bottom boat. They were both married to other people. Years later, both divorced, he hired her again to come to Mexico, and that is where it turned into a marriage. It is also where two trainers with one dolphin enclosure turned into close to thirty facilities in nine countries with more than two thousand employees.
Bob Bailey has been watching this field for sixty or seventy years, and I have been watching it with him, and his verdict is blunt. More dog businesses have failed on the business end than on the dog training end. Veronica Boutelle watched the same thing happen from the other side. She was Director of Behavior and Training at the San Francisco SPCA, where Jean Donaldson's Academy for Dog Trainers ran out of her department, and she would check in with graduates a year later and find them back in the careers they had tried to escape, or picking up part-time work to make rent. Not because they could not train. Because nobody had taught them how to run the thing. So she built it. Veronica and founding partner Gina Phairas launched dogbiz in late 2003 and are coming up on twenty-five years of teaching trainers the part that keeps the lights on. In this conversation Veronica tells Kirsten Kraljevic and Dr. Bob Bailey how the SF SPCA brought Chicken Camp to San Francisco by selling tickets to local trainers to cover it, how Bob flew out to headline her grand opening with a night of newly declassified government stories and the raven cameras, and how COVID turned a hastily built free six week program called Survive and Thrive into two thousand trainers from around the world and then into Thrive, the group coaching program still running today. She also says the thing most positive reinforcement trainers need to hear about their rates, and it is not comfortable. 3 Key Takeaways 1. You are running three businesses at once, whether you know it or not. Training animals is one skill set. Coaching the humans who live with the animal is a second, and if you do not change the person's behavior nothing you do with the dog sticks. Running the business is a third. Most trainers invest continuing education in the first one only.
After Marian Bailey died, Dr. Bob Bailey was ready to be done. He had promised her on her deathbed that he would keep teaching, and then he got discouraged enough to start looking at other things he could do with his time. Two women talked him out of it. Cheryl Trotter drove up from Houston and Carolyn Clark came down from Canada, and between them they told him they would help and they would not let him quit. Everything that came after, Sweden, Japan, China, and the workshops that built a generation of trainers, happened because those two would not let go of it.
Vicky Darnell did not want the puppy. The plan was to get herself trained up first and then bring another dog into the house, and that is not how it worked out. Tiz came home early. Three weeks later Vicky was sitting in her first Chicken Workshop. What she carried back to Chicagoland was not a chicken trick. It was timing, criteria, rate of reinforcement, and the nerve to stop a session that is going sideways instead of hoping it comes around. Tiz started trialing shortly after she turned six months old, the youngest age a dog can compete in UKC Nosework, and finished her Grand Champion at eleven months. Kirsten Kraljevic and Dr. Bob Bailey talk with Vicky about what actually transferred from the bird room to the trial floor. Vicky has run dog sporting events for thirteen years and has taken the discrimination class twice, and she still describes the workshop the way everyone does once they have been through it: you cannot comprehend it until you are standing there. Bob puts the principle plainly. You get what you reinforce, not what you want. Kirsten tells on Vicky for walking the hallway between the classroom and the bird room muttering seven seconds to herself, then watched her run that same clock at a nosework trial months later.