Show Notes
This is the first of 3 episodes where we explore the intersection of EMDR with the Justice system. It follows a decision by the Commonwealth DPP to discontinue a case of sexual assault because the complainant, Dr Katie Bird, had EMDR before making her report to police. This obviously raised many issues for EMDR therapists, but most importantly, for victims/survivors.
Following publicity about the case, many EMDR therapists were concerned their clients would have to choose between Healing and Justice. Some organisations were pausing EMDR therapy if clients might make a future statement to police. We wanted to understand how the legal system makes decisions about cases like Katie's; and how EMDR therapists could help our clients heal, without risking their right to justice. In this episode Jenny gives a brief over view of Katie's case and important concepts of "admissibility" and "reliability" of evidence in courts. Then she is joined by Harriet Murphy, a lawyer, who walks us through the Australian legal system – a user friendly overview – what happens when someone reports an alleged crime? Who makes decisions about whether the matter will be investigated, or prosecuted? What happens if it gets to court? The links below contain resources and information relating to this case, and themes discussed in this episode:
The original ABC report about Dr Katie Bird's case:
An article that challenges some of the misconceptions underlying the CDPP decision: https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/why-do-australian-courts-still-distrust-a-proven-trauma-therapy
A Victorian County Court Fact sheet that has useful information on the criminal trial process: https://www.countycourt.vic.gov.au/files/documents/2020-07/factsheet-6-criminal-trial-process.pdf
Further information on EMDR training and resources by Dr Jenny Dwyer is available at https://emdracademy.com.au/
More from Understanding EMDR
The Unique Trauma of Police Work: Insights from EMDR Therapy With Guest Krystal Hawkins In the challenging world of policing, officers face years of traumatic experiences that can lead to significant mental health challenges. In the previous Episode, former NSW police officer and author, Justyn Backhouse, spoke movingly about his experience of PTSD and the role EMDR has played in his journey of recovery. In this Episode, Krystal Hawkins, an EMDR consultant and mental health social worker, shares what she’s learned as a therapist working extensively with police and other First Responders. She provides insights into the unique trauma experienced by police, how to tailor EMDR to their needs, and the importance of collaboration, early intervention, and systemic support. Keywords: EMDR, police trauma, mental health, early intervention, trauma therapy, PTSD, first responders, neurobiology, trauma processing Upcoming training on EMDR with Police and First Responders If you work with, or would like to feel more confident supporting police officers and other first responders, join Krystal Hawkins for our exclusive half day webinar Understanding EMDR with Police and First Responders on 27 November 2026. Proudly sponsored by EMDR Academy Australia. Registrations and information available at: https://emdracademy.com.au/events/ Episode Resources To access an article Krystal wrote for the National FireFighter Magazine, Summer Edition 2024, pp34-39 use the link below https://www.thenationalfirefighter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/TNF-Summer-24-PRINTREADY_compressed.pdf Understanding EMDR podcast is Proudly sponsored by EMDR Academy Australia. Leading providers of EMDR training across Australasia. Specialist training in Early Intervention, Group EMDR, Adaptations for Children and Adolescents and international guests. Online and in-person trainings available. https://emdracademy.com.au Follow us on Social Media LinkedIn: /emdracademyaus Instagram: /emdracademyaus
Guest Justyn Backhouse - former police officer, author of Hidden Scars: From Crime Scenes to Crisis, The Price of Service
In the final episode of our Healing versus Justice series, we hear directly from Dr Katie Bird. It was Katie's case, first reported by the ABC, that exposed a serious problem in the Australian legal system: victim-survivors who had received EMDR therapy were being denied justice because of misconceptions about the therapy.
Inspired by the advocacy of Dr Katie Bird, who was denied access to justice after she had EMDR therapy, this 3-part series has explored a critical question - can EMDR therapists support their clients in healing without jeopardising their future access to justice? In this episode, Dr Jenny Dwyer reflects on the nature of trauma, the likelihood of delayed and partial disclosure, and the circumstances that make it possible, even likely, that the legal system and EMDR may intersect for many clients. Drawing on current discourse in the EMDR community, legal context and emerging consensus, she provides some much needed guidance for therapists. While acknowledging the real difficulties in this area, she cautions against therapists becoming unnecessarily intimidated by the legal system; and outlines a set of 'Principles for Practice' that can inform therapy and guide reflection.
This is the second episode in our series exploring the intersection of EMDR with the Justice system. It follows a decision by the Commonwealth DPP to discontinue a case of sexual assault because the complainant had EMDR before making her report to police.