Kerry Daynes: The Profiler

We welcome Kerry Daynes back to True Criminals for the second of two conversations with one of Britain’s leading consultant forensic psychologists.

Last time, we explored Kerry’s encounters with serial killer Dennis Nilsen. This time, the story is Kerry herself and an extraordinary career spent sitting opposite some of the most dangerous and complex people in the criminal justice system.

Kerry takes us back to Wakefield Prison in 1996, when, aged just 21, she entered a deeply intimidating and misogynistic environment to begin her career in forensic psychology. She recalls interviewing men convicted of rape and murder, being deliberately locked in a cell with a killer, and the lessons she learned about fear, authority and maintaining control.

There are darker stories and some unexpectedly funny ones. Kerry tells us why a convicted double murderer repeatedly dropped his prosthetic eye into her tomato soup, and how learning not to react became a lesson in psychology she still uses today.

We explore what forensic psychologists actually do, how Kerry builds rapport with dangerous offenders without becoming their audience, and why understanding someone’s behaviour is very different from excusing it. She explains her approach of “rational compassion” and the importance of remaining authentic when interviewing and assessing people capable of extreme violence.

Kerry also discusses occasions when offenders have successfully deceived her, the cases that have got under her skin, and the day a man she was assessing stabbed her in the stomach with a kebab skewer, an incident she remarkably describes as a bad day, but not the worst of her career.

We also turn to two criminals previously examined on True Criminals: conman Mark Acklom, and one of Britain’s most notorious prisoners, Charles Bronson, now Charles Salvador. Kerry, who has worked professionally with Salvador and gave evidence at his public parole hearing, offers a fascinating psychological perspective on the man behind the mythology and asks how decades of imprisonment have shaped the person he became.

Finally, Kerry talks candidly about losing her hearing, why it led her to step away from expert witness work, and why forensic psychology remains not simply a career but a vocation.

It’s a conversation about violence and vulnerability, nature and nurture, punishment and rehabilitation, but above all, about the human beings behind some of the darkest acts imaginable.

Find more from Kerry Daynes

The Profiler with Kerry DaynesKerry examines British murder cases and the psychology behind them.Listen to The Profiler

The Dark Side of the MindKerry’s Sunday Times bestselling account of life and work as a forensic psychologist.The Dark Side of the Mind

What Lies BuriedKerry goes deeper into the psychology behind extreme and disturbing behaviour and the question of what makes someone dangerous.What Lies Buried

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Connect with Martin Brunt

Follow Martin on Twitter at ⁠⁠⁠⁠@skymartinbrunt⁠⁠⁠⁠. Discover more about his career and the cases he’s covered by reading his book, No One Got Cracked Over the Head for No Reason: Dispatches from a Crime Reporter, available here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://amzn.eu/d/g1WisSY⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Credits

True Criminals is produced by Audio Bleach Global.

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Executive Producer: Lee Mann.

Producer: Russell Barnes.

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