Episode 12 All Hail the Sugar and Energy Queen Michele Chevalley-Hedge, and the Labels That Are Lying to You, Justin Finally Learns to Breathe, and Lee’s Rant on the Fillers Nobody Warned You About.

It all started with a conversation about what it felt like to be “the organic person” at a dinner party in 2002. From there, we cover the things we predicted that came true (collagen, magnesium, clean beauty), the things that genuinely surprised us (cold water, breathwork, fermented foods everywhere), and the things that are still firmly, stubbornly woo-woo - detox teas, ear candling and the rest. We also make our bets on what’s woo-hooing next (zombie cells, we’re looking at you), and Justin brings a Womansplain question about the bags under his eyes that neither of us can resist. In this episode, we chat about: · What it felt like to be the organic eater in 2002. · Cold water exposure: Wim Hof, ice baths and suburban dads. · Lee’s mum’s lifelong cold shower habit (and living to nearly 93). · Why Lee is personally not into cold water therapy. · Fermented foods going from “are you unwell?” to the dairy aisle at Woollies. · The 1980s version of gut health: Yakult and its cultures. · Breathwork - the free wellness tool with real evidence behind it. · Irene’s $180 breathwork class that she was not ready for. · Box breathing and slow exhales. · Irene’s “toxic-free” beauty beginnings - and the Lucas’ Papaw Ointment petroleum moment. · Why “clean beauty” is a word used indiscriminately. · Gua sha, jade rollers and CO2-extracted oils - the “I told you so” segment. · Espresso culture vs Nescafé, and Irene’s Italian household roots. · The milk shift: macadamia, oat and the decaf soy latte. · Collagen - the supplement that went from mocked to mainstream. · Toxin-free cleaning, VOCs, dishwashing steam and toddlers on floors. · Magnesium flakes vs Epsom salts - what the difference actually is. · Detox teas, the infomercial-era cash cows. · doTERRA, multi-level marketing and essential oils. · Ear candling: a firm no from both of us. · Detox footpads and the “how does it turn black?” mystery. · Fluoride: Irene’s water-filter journey, and where each of us actually stands. · Zinc sunscreen, slugging, and putting zinc on your face at night. · Cricket flour - the nutritional breakdown Lee researched live, and why we’re still on the fence. · Irene’s near-miss with I’m a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here. · What actually turns woo-woo into mainstream (spoiler: evidence). · Zombie cells - Lee’s deep dive, and how they’ve crossed over into skincare. · Irene’s Acure zombie serum discovery. · Raw milk: both of us say no. · Circadian eating as the next big conversation. · Bryan Johnson, Blueprint and longevity coffee. · Womansplain: bags under the eyes - the caffeine eye masks, the eye cream, and Lee’s actual advice. What’s Popping: The Woo-Woo Prophecies That Came True Irene spent 15-plus years being called snake-oil salesperson on social media. This episode is, in part, Irene and Lee’s receipts. Irene’s list of things she was mocked for that are now everywhere: · Clean beauty - she called it “toxic-free beauty” back when she started Nourished Life in 2012. · Gua sha - she was “hammered for selling a piece of rock that did nothing” around 12 years ago. · CO2-extracted rosehip oils - she says she was called out by “half the science community” for that one. · Magnesium flakes - a blog post explaining the difference between magnesium chloride flakes and Epsom salts brought in an “insane” number of orders. · Toxin-free cleaning products - now on mainstream shelves. Lee’s list: · Collagen peptides - now in every cafe and health food store. · Fermented foods - now at every service station and in every cafe’s kimchi offering. · Breathwork - now backed by meta-analyses and free apps. The pattern they both name: something gets dismissed, it goes niche, it becomes popular through word of mouth and personal experience, and eventually - if the evidence shows up - it becomes completely standard. Womansplain: Bags Under the Eyes Justin asked the question: what actually causes bags under the eyes, and do any of the products work? Lee’s answer covered four different thi

You might know Matilda from her years in the film industry, or as the daughter of Australian acting icons Brian Brown and Rachel Ward. But Matilda is now in a very different chapter of her life. She’s a passionate advocate for regenerative agriculture, and co-founder of The Good Farm Shop alongside her husband, Scott Gooding. Matilda opens up about her history with disordered eating, the diet culture that shaped her relationship with food, and how meeting Scott helped her understand nutrition in an entirely new way. She also shares how a family farm, a global pandemic and a growing awareness of where our food comes from led her down the path of regenerative agriculture. We get into the difference between certified organic and regenerative farming, why knowing your farmer matters, and how The Good Farm Shop is making responsibly sourced food more accessible for busy families. And because no episode with Lee and Irene would be complete without a deep dive into ingredients, we also explore microplastics in our food, water and beauty products, how to navigate confusing labels, and what consumers can do without losing their minds in the process. There’s nostalgia, honesty, a few laughs, some uncomfortable truths about the food system and plenty of food for thought. Literally. In this episode, we chat about: * Growing up in a family immersed in the film industry. * Matilda’s 15-year career in acting, writing and directing. * Why she eventually walked away from Hollywood dreams. * The rejection and uncertainty of working in the entertainment industry. * How meeting Scott Gooding changed Matilda’s relationship with food. * Her experience with disordered eating and restrictive diets. * How diet culture shaped the way women viewed their bodies. * The changing conversation around body image, weight loss and GLP-1 medications. * Moving beyond food rules and learning what the body actually needs. * Reintroducing meat after years of vegetarianism and veganism. * Understanding food provenance and ethical meat production. * What regenerative agriculture actually means. * How Rachel Ward’s family farm began its transition to regenerative farming. * Soil health, rotational grazing and working with nature. * The difference between organic certification and regenerative farming. * Why grass-fed and organic don’t necessarily mean regenerative. * How The Good Farm Shop began as a cow-share initiative. * Making regeneratively raised meat accessible to everyday households. * Why buying directly from farmers can make a difference. * How to source better food when you’re busy. * The Good Farm Shop cookbook and easy, nourishing meals. * Microplastics in our food, water, air, clothing and beauty products. * What to look for when reading beauty and skincare ingredients. * Why ingredient-checking apps don’t always tell the whole story. * The challenges of navigating greenwashing and “clean” product claims. * Practical ways to make more informed choices without becoming overwhelmed.

In this episode, we speak with Anthia Koullouros, clinical naturopath, herbalist and founder of Apotheca in Surry Hills. With more than 30 years in practice, Anthia has watched natural medicine move from fringe whisper to supermarket staple. She also spent 16 years building Ovvio into one of Australia’s most respected organic tea brands, before losing control of the business and walking away. This is a conversation about herbal wisdom, food audits, nervous-system health, women in business and the messy, brave process of rebuilding from the ground up. There are bitters, business lessons and possibly enough rosemary to season an entire lamb roast. In this episode, we chat about: * How 12-year-old Anthia discovered herbal medicine. * Building Ovvio from clinic to celebrated tea brand. * What happens in a naturopathic consultation. * Western herbal medicine and therapeutic dosing. * The difference between kitchen herbs and clinical doses. * Rosemary, memory, circulation, liver health and lamb. * Carminative herbs for bloating and digestive discomfort. * How to read ingredients lists—not just nutrition panels. * Why some cottage cheeses are more “food-like” than others. * Choosing cleaner protein powders and avoiding unnecessary fillers. * How to audit your Uber Eats order. * Feeling “wired but tired”. * Building capacity before investigating deeper causes. * Herbs for perimenopause symptoms, cognition and mood. * Why wild yam has been wildly overpromoted. * Gut health, digestion and eating in a dysregulated state. * Digestive bitters and the return of “rest and digest”. * Losing Ovvio and rebuilding Apotheca. * What happens when investors try to “buy the light”. * Why women without money often have to be smarter. * Anthia’s unexpected connection to the Bourne films. * Lee’s rant about misleading tomato-product labelling. * Why front-of-pack claims should never get the final word. What’s Popping: Building, Losing and Rebuilding Anthia spent 16 years building Ovvio into something extraordinary. It was more than a tea company: it was a clinic, a lifestyle store, a beloved brand and an extension of her knowledge, creativity and identity. Every ingredient was certified organic. Blends were created for specific clients, chefs and restaurants. Aria had its own blend. Bills had theirs. Chiswick, Fratelli Paradiso and other leading Sydney restaurants trusted Anthia’s work. Then came the moment when she began to doubt the very skills that had built the business. She thought she needed more business expertise. She thought she needed more money and strategic support. So she invited in an investor who appeared to offer both. What followed is a story that will be painfully familiar to many women in business. The investor had money, or appeared to. Anthia invested more to avoid dilution, but was diluted anyway. Again and again, until she was left with 10 per cent of a business she had spent 16 years creating. “No amount of money can pay for that 16 years.” And she’s right. Then COVID arrived. The warehouse moved to Brisbane, Anthia couldn’t access her products, and the business went into administration, even though it had been performing strongly online. She faced an impossible choice: spend $100,000 a day fighting in court, or walk away with her sanity and her clinic. She chose her sanity. There was no settlement and no financial return from the business she had built. But there was still her knowledge, her creativity, her patients and the ability to begin again. The deeper work came afterwards. Anthia undertook psychotherapy and nervous-system work to understand why similar patterns had appeared in both her business and personal relationships. Rather than simply blaming herself, she examined what needed to change so she would never recreate the same dynamic. Now, she has rebuilt as Apotheca: smaller, more intentional and much closer to the work she actually loves. She hand-blends teas, sees patients and creates products with purpose. And some

She had one virus but ended up with three separate diagnoses: POTS (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome), MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome), and discovered she had underlying hEDS (Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome). But here’s what most doctors miss: these aren’t three separate problems. They’re three expressions of one integrated system dysfunction. This is not the neat, three-step fix that wellness typically offers. This is the messy middle. The vulnerability. The moment when a clinical nutritionist who spent her entire career teaching others how to heal had to learn a completely different language to heal herself. Lee walks through the science behind these conditions, how they connect through the nervous system and connective tissue, and the framework that finally allowed her to move from dysfunction to genuinely functioning again. If you’ve ever felt like your body doesn’t follow the wellness playbook, this episode is for you. Featuring the candid conversation with Irene, a 60-second womansplain on why Capricorns get overlooked in astrology, and Lee’s comprehensive nutritionist nerd notes explaining the science behind neuro-inflammation, the integrated dysfunction model, and the emerging research reshaping how we understand post-viral conditions. In this episode we chat about: · What happened when COVID didn’t resolve - the cascade of conditions that followed · POTS (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome): symptoms, diagnosis, and why it’s being missed · MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome): histamine, neuro-inflammation, and why your mast cells go haywire · hEDS (Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome): connective tissue, flexibility as dysfunction, and the ripple effects · Why these three conditions aren’t separate problems - the integrated system dysfunction model · The nervous system and connective tissue: the two core systems connecting POTS, MCAS, and hEDS · Why only 2% of doctors are trained in POTS management and what that means for diagnosis · The framework that changed everything: supporting three major systems instead of chasing symptoms · How to support connective tissue: silica, collagen, vitamin C, copper balance, and food-first approach · Salt, hydration, and compression: the game-changing POTS protocol Lee discovered · Low histamine diet, mast cell stabilisers, nettle tea, and why fermented foods became off-limits · Post-exertional malaise (PEM): understanding the crash and pacing instead of pushing · Identity crisis and healing: what it means when the wellness narrative doesn’t apply to you · Building a sustainable work life around actual capacity, not the old 24/7 hustle · The silver lining: how understanding these conditions made Lee a better practitioner and author What’s Popping: Long COVID as an Integrated System Dysfunction The Cascade: One Virus, Three Conditions When Lee had COVID in spring 2022, she expected the standard illness pattern. Instead, she experienced crushing chest pain that didn’t stop, debilitating fatigue that didn’t lift, and brain fog that deepened. After three months stuck in London, she finally flew home to Australia, unable to even crawl up the 46 stairs to her front door. This wasn’t normal fatigue from a viral illness. This was her body breaking in ways that textbook nutrition couldn’t fix and the medical system didn’t know how to address. Australia has 12 million documented COVID cases, with millions still getting infected. But here’s what’s only becoming clear now: when you get long COVID, it can trigger a cascade of interconnected conditions. For Lee, it was POTS, MCAS, and hEDS all triggered by the same viral event. Most doctors treat these as three separate problems, leaving patients managing three conditions in isolation without anyone seeing the integrated dysfunction at the core. POTS (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome): The Connective Tissue Connection hEDS (Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome) affects collagen throughout the body. When collagen is

This week Lee and Irene dive deep into manifestation through two very different lenses. Irene’s approach is emotional resonance and alignment, feeling as if you already have what you want and acting as if it’s already on its way. Lee’s is grounded in the science of how your brain filters reality through the reticular activating system and creates the conditions for things to move toward you. Together, they explore how manifestation works, why writing a number on a piece of paper doesn’t cut it, what happens when the universe delivers differently than you expected, and the Taoist concept of effortless action that makes everything feel like it flows. ✨ In this episode we chat about: · The difference between manifestation and wishful thinking · How emotional truth and feeling are at the core of real manifestation · Irene’s origin story - the Esther Hicks event that changed everything · The moment she wrote $20 million in her book and sold her company for exactly that amount · Lee’s intuitive approach through vivid dreams and subconscious understanding · The science behind manifestation: the reticular activating system and neural networks · What The Secret got right and what it missed · Vision boards, manifestation books, scripting and journaling as different practices · Why letting go is harder than doing the work · Effortless action and what true alignment feels like 🎙 What’s Popping: Manifestation, Alignment, and the Science of Getting What You Want The Instagram Version vs. The Real Thing The Instagram version of manifestation is about acquisition. Write a number, visualise a Ferrari, believe hard enough and the universe delivers a specific dollar amount directly into your bank account. This version has sold millions of courses and made a lot of people money. But it’s missing something critical: emotional truth. When someone says they want $5 million, it’s a figure. But it’s not a feeling. You can’t really feel $30 million, and you can’t inhabit what you can’t feel. You’re giving your brain a target it has no idea how to orient towards. The real manifestation is about alignment. It’s about getting emotionally honest about what you actually want and why you want it, then acting as if it’s already on its way. When you’re truly aligned and genuinely clear on what you want, things start moving. But they don’t always move in the shape you expected. The universe is not limited to one route. If you want to walk away from a draining job and feel financially secure, the universe offers more than one path to that feeling. The money, the car, the house - these are possible routes. But they’re not the only routes. This is the distinction that separates the real thing from carnival barking. And it’s free. What Manifestation Actually Requires Passive wishing is not manifestation. Sitting on a couch, picturing a number, and waiting for it to appear is a fantasy, not a practice. Real manifestation requires getting emotionally honest about what you want and why, feeling it as already real, then acting in alignment with it. Every single step matters. Remove the action and you just have a fantasy. Irene’s Journey: The Manifestation Book and the $20 Million Irene’s awakening came through her mother and a YouTube video featuring Esther Hicks, the voice for a collective consciousness channelled as Abraham. At the time, Irene was working in corporate at Universal Pictures. It was a struggle - she felt like a round peg in a square corporate box. Her mum sent her the video and it resonated immediately. She was already having a stressful week with a mortgage, driving a Volkswagen Beetle (which is now iconic to her origin story). She went deeper: read The Secret, watched The Secret, and when Esther Hicks toured Australia, her mum bought her tickets. At the event, Irene brought a notebook and pen. On that stage, she wrote down what she wanted. Humble things by most standards - a deposit for a house, financial freedom, the basics most Australians aspire t