Show Notes
“What happens when design grows up?”
Summary In this episode, Julia and I explore what happens when design grows up — as systems thinking, organisational politics, and industry shifts reshape what it means to do meaningful work. Julia Petretta, an experienced Product Design Leader, has shaped digital experiences across startups and global consultancies — from Welltech and Plum to Accenture, Infinity Works, and Meta’s Oversight Board. With a background spanning UX, service design, and strategy, they’ve led teams, built design practices, and driven AI-powered, user-centred innovation across complex products and services. We talk about finding your voice, designing relationships (not just interfaces), and challenging the myth that design always “makes the world better.” From the disintegration of UX to the rise of product thinking, it’s an honest look at where our craft stands — and how to stay grounded through art, nature, and reflection.
Guest Julia Petretta – LinkedIN Dave Stewart — The Work Is Never Just the Work Basecamp — https://basecamp.com/shapeup https://medium.com/design-bootcamp/thinking-paradigms-in-ux-feec562324ee (systems thinking in design)
Host Danny Hearn – linkedIN
Chapters 00:00 Intro + the “design helps people” myth 01:01 Finding a voice on stage 07:37 Systems thinking (interrelated parts & loops) 12:16 Why product: constraints that focus the work 16:47 NHS co-design example (multi-actor journey mapping) 21:05 Monday-morning application: boundaries & x-functional views 25:26 Culture/politics: hard conversations vs quick fixes 31:40 Industry shifts & AI waves 37:05 Airbnb ripple effects, scale distortion & reviews 42:22 Generalists, Figma polish, and AI “taste” 48:05 Cautious hope: shaping from the inside 49:13 Grounding practices: dog, nature, yoga, art
More from the deeply human design podcast
“You cannot innovate if you don't have diverse thinking.” Summary In this episode, we explore the winding creative journey of Meg Porter, a designer turned product leader and founder, who shares how her artistic roots evolved into a passion for solving complex human problems. She candidly opens up about navigating corporate environments as a neurodivergent woman, facing systemic biases, and the exhaustion of trying to fit traditional workplace molds. Meg discusses her work with The Female Product Lead community, advocating for truly inclusive leadership and psychological safety across tech. She also details the creation of Unfold, her new app designed to help neurodivergent individuals manage executive dysfunction through nervous system and emotional regulation. Throughout the conversation, Meg highlights the immense value of radical self-knowledge over conventional career frameworks. Guest Meg Porter LinkedIn – https://linkedin.com/in/megporter Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/_meg_porter/ TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/@_meg_porter_ Unfold Website – https://getunfold.app Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/_unfoldapp_/ TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/@_unfoldapp_ Female Product Lead Website – https://femaleproductlead.com Events – https://luma.com/femaleproductlead Host Danny Hearn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyhearn/ Website – https://www.dannyhearn.me Podcast – https://www.deeplyhumandesign.com Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 01:38 Meg's Origins in Physical Graphic Design 04:43 Navigating Subjectivity and Finding Structure in Design 08:23 Expressing Personal Empathy Through Art Projects 10:17 Transitioning into Corporate Tech and Healthcare Design 14:12 Clashing Values and Systemic Politics in Enterprise Roles 18:35 Fostering Psychological Safety and Diverse Perspectives 22:57 Empowering Underrepresented Voices with Female Product Lead 26:27 Experiencing the Glass Ceiling and Micro-Behaviors 32:25 Finding Core Purpose and Showing Up Authentically 37:14 Building Unfold for Neurodivergent Emotional Regulation 43:58 Developing the MVP and Co-Founding with Family 46:23 Tackling Executive Dysfunction and Rejection Sensitivity 51:21 Prioritising Self-Knowledge Over Skill Sets in Leadership
"People massively overestimate the amount of change that's going to happen in two years, and they underestimate the amount in five to 10 years."
"The pressure to move faster in the tech industry creates an environment where presence and mental well-being are often sacrificed for speed.”
Reclaiming the Heart in Design “There’s so much heart in some of these things that you’re putting in heart in that space and I find it very hard to detach some of those.”
“Sometimes the best thing you can do is just be the kindest person in the room.”