Good Teams, Bad Outcomes with Martina Ziegenfuss and Jim Elvidge
Agile and Project Management - DrunkenPM RadioShow Notes
Good Teams, Bad Outcomes with Martina Ziegenfuss and Jim Elvidge
In this episode of drunkenpm radio, Martina Ziegenfuss and Jim Elvidge of Clerv.io join me for a conversation about a frustrating but common pattern in organizations: smart, capable teams still end up delivering slow, messy, or misaligned results. The conversation looks at how team performance is shaped by the surrounding system, not just the people on the team. They also unpack how AI can speed up delivery in some places while exposing bottlenecks, governance gaps, and operating model problems somewhere else.In this episode, Dave, Martina, and Jim explore what makes a team “good,” why good teams can still produce bad outcomes, and how leadership choices often create the very friction teams are blamed for. They also discuss Clerv.io’s diagnostics and playbooks, designed to help organizations see systemic problems more clearly and work through them.
Key Topics
- What defines a good team - Systemic challenges in organizations - Impact of AI on team performance - Creating a culture of empowerment - Diagnosing organizational health with diagnostics - Experimenting with team structures - The role of leadership and management - Overcoming systemic resistance to change - Tools for assessing organizational health - The future of team design and AI
Chapters
00:00 — Why good teams can still produce bad outcomes 04:19 — Why Clerv.io started and what its playbooks are for 06:49 — Good teams, bad outcomes, and the impact of the system 11:37 — How team design depends on the broader system and architecture 14:22 — How organizational history, silos, and fear create friction 19:36 — The cross-functional team experiment and what it changed 27:05 — What AI can and can’t replace in team roles 33:06 — Theory of constraints: why faster tools don’t fix the bottleneck 35:43 — AI exposing governance and approval delays 47:03 — How to contact Martina and Jim and follow Clerv.io
Links from the Podcast
Clervio: https://clerv.io/
2026 PMI WDC Conference: www.pmiwdc.org/conference-2026-pmi-wdc PMI SWVA 2026 Fall Symposium:
Digital PM Summit: thebureau.community/2026-digital-pm-summit
Connect with Martina Ziegenfuss LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinaz/
Connect with Jim Elvidge LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimelvidge/
Connect with Dave Prior drunkenPM Radio: soundcloud.com/drunkenpmradio LInkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mrsungo/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6E6lOSFg21gfyMmjHUH1yw
More from Agile and Project Management - DrunkenPM Radio
In this episode, Dave Borzillo shares insights from his book 'Sanity at Scale' on how engineering leaders can shift from heroics to systemic excellence, emphasizing removing waste, visualizing work, and fostering team collaboration.
In this episode, Shalabh Tandon and Shubhada Sahasrabudhe join me to discuss their new book, 'Don't Panic Pivot: Managing Critical Issues to Prevent Crises.' We explore the differences between risks and issues, what makes an issue critical, and why they emphasize a systematic approach to managing crises. The authors introduce their nine-six framework, which includes three whys, nine ingredients, and six steps to effectively address critical issues. They highlight the role of leadership and organizational culture in fostering a proactive environment for issue management. We also dig into the intricacies of crisis management and the importance of building resilience within organizations, maintaining quality, and ensuring transparent communication during crises. You'll hear their tips on how to find balance between discipline and drama in crisis response and how AI can enhance crisis management strategies. The conversation highlights actionable insights for leaders and organizations to navigate crises effectively.
Agile 2026 is almost here! And John Tanner and I will be presenting on Monday, July 27th, at 3:15 PM. Our session is called When AI Starts Doing Your Job: Surviving the PM Identity Crisis. If you are someone who has been struggling with getting out of the gate with AI. If your hesitating because you don’t know how to start, you don’t know what to do with it, it's just too overwhelming, or you can see how it impacts the other roles, but not your own, you are the reason John and I put this session together beause that was me, 8 months ago, moaning about how I didn’t want to be the prompt guy.
I sat down with longtime friend and fellow PMI volunteer Mattias Georgson Petrén to get schooled on Half Double, the Danish hybrid framework that has been around for over ten years but I only just learned about. Mattias walks through where it came from (a frustrated group of practitioners, industrial funding, and research backing from Aarhus University), what it promises — half the time double the impact — and how it blends Agile cadence with the discipline of traditional, stage-based product management. We get into co-location, the 50% staffing rule, and why he treats Half Double as a lens layered on top of existing frameworks rather than a replacement for any of them. We close out with a conversation about where project managers fit into an AI-driven future that left me probably less worried than I've been about this in months.
In this episode, Dave Prior chats with Alex Sloley, an agile coach and Scrum Alliance Board candidate, about the evolving landscape of Agile, Scrum, and the impact of AI on teamwork and project management. They explore how community involvement, technological innovation, and leadership can shape the future of Agile practices.