Show Notes
Welcome to 2026 and as promised here is John Behr’s talk on Gregory of Nyssa and his view of what it means to be a human being. I gave an extended introduction to this talk at the end of year, and sorry there has been a lapse of time between that and this talk I was introducing…. a thing called ‘Christmas’ intervened. Anyway, to refresh our minds. This is the third talk John gave at our Gospel Conversations conference in 2025. The theme of them all is the Patristic vision of what it means to be a human being (the last talk was on Irenaeus). Both Irenaeus and Gregory thought about humanity not just in terms of salvation from sin, but more broadly in terms of what is the role of humanity in the creation? One of the problems with the sin-based view of redemption is that it begs this question - why did God create humanity in the first place? That is where Gregory’s mind goes, and thankfully Gregory had a profound and godly mind to help us answer that question! When I interviewed David Bentley Hart on Gregory, he claimed that he was the most innovative theologian of the Patristics world (a big prize given the competition!!) and it was around exactly the point of this talk that David made that claim. It takes a bit to wrap your head around… (or at least that is my experience) largely because in our modern theology we don’t ponder the problem that they pondered. For us the problem is the problem of sin - how can a holy God save sinners? But that was not the primary problem of the Patristic thinkers - rather it was the ‘creational’ problem of how can a divine - ie unchanging - God relate to a created - ie changing - creation? This is not just a philosophical problem - it gets to the angst of life today. We are bound on a wheel of change and this change makes meaning hard to find. Where is the ‘still point of the turning world’??? Hopkins captures the poignancy of the problem best in his painful lines on the ephemeral nature of beauty…. (‘The Leaden Echo and the Golden Echo’) ‘How to keep - is there any, any, is there none'Such, nowhere known some, bow or brooch or braid or brace, lace, latch or catch or key to keepBack beauty, keep it, beauty, beauty, beauty …from vanishing away? Gregory’s stunning answer to this dilemma, according to David, was to see in humanity’s very ‘changeability’ the terms of our ultimate destiny with the divine. Somehow we are called to link the changing with the unchanging - and to take changing ‘nature’ with us! It is this paradox that John untangles in this talk. so it is a golden treasure of a talk. I know of no-one more qualified than John to help us dive into this. And to tease you further, I think this is theme of Ecclesiastes… (Anne and I are studying it at present using Iain Provan’s profound commentary - so I may include a talk or two on this later in the year).
Get full access to Gospel Conversations at gospelconversations.substack.com/subscribe
More from Gospel Conversations podcast
This talk is the next in our ‘Women as thought leaders’ in theology’ series, featuring Australian theologian Robyn Wrigley-Carr speaking about English Anglo-Catholic spiritual writer Evelyn Underhill (1875-1941) and her insights into spiritual formation. Underhill is not so well known today, but was a significant writer, firstly on mysticism and then later on Christian spirituality, as well as being a pioneering spiritual director and retreat leader. It is intriguing to hear about a woman of her era who published 39 books, lectured at the University of Oxford and was deeply influential in both Catholic and Anglican circles. Robyn is herself a spiritual director and retreat leader and in this talk we not only hear about Underhill’s spiritual formation, but also Robyn’s own journey. Robyn’s doctorate from the University of St Andrews examined Underhill’s spiritual director, Baron Friedrich von Hügel. As Robyn explored the Spiritual formation of Evelyn Underhill (also the title of one of her books), she also discovered and then published Underhill’s own Prayer Book, which is a beautiful resource of prayers from spiritual writers through the ages. In a sense, this talk is itself an expression of the very spiritual formation it describes — a living legacy stretching from von Hügel to Evelyn Underhill, through her writings to Robyn, and now reaching us. There was an extensive Q&A session that followed which is included below.
Well we have finally reached the end of our long, long journey on the Camino (though we are adding an epilogue of four days walking to the sea - Fisterra by the Atlantic). 779kms and 36 days of walking across all kinds of terrain, weather and meeting lots of people on different kinds of journey. It was actually quite emotional to walk into the huge square of Santiago and give each other a hug and shed a few tears of joy - and relief!
This interview, hosted by Leisa Aitken, is part of our series, ‘Women as thought leaders in theology.’ It is with the brilliant and deeply pastoral Oxford based clinical psychologist, Anglican priest and theologian Reverend Dr Joanna Collicutt McGrath. We discuss her recent book, So Longeth my soul: A reader in Christian spirituality. Joanna wrote it for those needing an accessible introduction to reading the primary sources of spiritual writings through history, with excerpts from a range of profound Christian writers from 2nd to 19th century. Joanna’s interdisciplinary thinking and knowledge of church history is rich and insightful. During this interview we explore a range of topics, including the universal themes of loss and longing, constraints that female spiritual writers in history experienced, and the topic of her second PhD; the role of the visual arts and visual imagery in understanding the scriptures. We hope you are inspired to read this superb book and so find fellowship with Christians through the ages whose souls, like ours, have longed for God.
This is our second Breakfast with Jesus on our Camino walk - now over 600kms into it! This chat was recorded after we had climbed into the Galicia mountains and saw the awe-inspiring views from the high point of the ancient village of O Cebreiro. So it was fitting that we discussed Psalm 8 in this context - the succinct mandate for a human centred cosmos! Our first chat covered creation-as-providence in Psalm 145 - but Psalm 8 takes this providential view of creation one huge step further and charts the role of humanity in this created order. And it is a breathtaking calling as mini-gods - or a ‘little lower than gods’ - crowned with glory and honour. Of course this leads to the epic second chapter of Hebrews which takes this Psalm as the vision for the high calling of what it means to be a human being. A vision that is only fulfilled in Jesus. We want to capture the exploratory way we discuss the Scripture so this chat, like the last one, is unscripted and it wanders like our conversations. We pose questions - and explore possibilities. But it is all anchored around a text. And we use a theologian we like to stimulate and guide our thinking, although we don’t slavishly follow their thinking. I think this is how the Spirit wants us to work with Scripture: not as excavating the ‘right’ meaning, but rather as interpreting it into our lives and thoughts today. Hope you enjoy it.
Anne and I are walking the vast Camino path - about 800km from St Jean in France to Santiago in Spain. We thought it would be a good time to revive our ‘Breakfast with Jesus’ channel in Gospel Conversations. And rather than just me doing the talking, we have recorded this as a conversation to try to capture the reality of how we are walking and talking. This chat is about Psalm 145. But it begins with Anne talking about some of her spiritual journey over the last few years - and how some significant physical suffering has (mysteriously) precipitated a deeper faith journey in her spirit. We also explain how we use some resources to guide our discussions - in this case the wonderful Walter Bruggemann on the Psalms. (‘The Message of the Psalms”). And we did an unscripted conversation in this talk - which captures the exploratory way we read and talk together in our morning devotions. A real conversation explores and that means it surprises, with its twists and turns and questions and alleyways. So that is what you get in this ‘talk’. In a real way this conversation illustrates what Ben Myers talked about in his recent talk on how the Bible’s ‘inspiration’ works. According to Ben, the biblical text is not a set in concrete version of the truth but rather a divine stimulus to get us thinking and talking - which means that the modern reader experience is somehow part of the ‘inspiration’. Of course, that brings the Holy Spirit into view as always working - from the initial authorship to the modern day reading. So our humble little conversation, with all its pauses and meanderings, is a picture of that ‘reading’ inspiration at work - on Psalm 145. We hope you join us in enjoying this little journey.