Show Notes
Why would an out queer person in the Gay Liberation Days of the 1970s go to church? What church would they go to? And why would they stay? In the 1960s, and ‘70s, the separation between God and gays was not as vast as it seemed. Rev. Troy Perry started the first Metropolitan Community Church in his Los Angeles living room. Tired of flying to LA every week, a Navy veteran started the second one in a San Francisco gay bar. And the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco was there for a young lesbian as she navigated spirituality, coming out, and her increasingly conservative family. When her friend got sick, she tried to be there for him. Church helped. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-2. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits: When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels. Thanks to Dr. Heather White, author of Reforming Sodom: Protestants and the Rise of Gay Rights.
Scott Bloom and Trogoidia Pictures for the use of clips from the film Call Me Troy.
The Center for LGBTQ and Gender Studies at the Pacific School of Religion and the Graduate Theological Union for the use of an archival recording of Troy Perry’s last sermon as the minister at MCC Los Angeles.
Kirke Machem for the use of his beautiful composition, “Blow Ye, the Trumpet,” from the opera, John Brown.
Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible. Some links to good groups: The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation’s current website. Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part. San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV. POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included). Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site. LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
More from When We All Get To Heaven
If you’d like to support our podcast and show everyone how important and impactful this story is, we hope you will take a moment to vote for us for The Signal Listener’s Choice Award by going to vote.signalaward.com/publicvoting.
Slate and the team at Eureka Street Productions are so honored by this award and want to thank everyone who has listened to and supported the show. This series tells the story of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco, one of the first gay-positive churches in America, and how its congregation faced the AIDS epidemic, including the deaths of hundreds of its members.
As When We All Get to Heaven wraps up, Christina sits down with series host Lynne Gerber and producer Siri Colom. They discuss how the church has changed, the value of fleeting queer spaces, and what a decade or more spent working on this story has meant to—and taught—them. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Produced by Palace Shaw and Merritt Jacob. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In the final episode of When We All Get to Heaven, we catch up on what’s happened in the many years between the emergence of effective treatment for AIDS in the late ‘90s and the fall of 2025, when we recorded this episode. We linger on a moment back in June 1999, when Jim was still pastor and called on the church to remember that AIDS wasn’t over. Because—advances notwithstanding—it still isn’t over. For more on Gilbert Baker and the history of the rainbow flag see the Gilbert Baker Foundation. For more on Prep see San Francisco AIDS Foundation, What is PrEP? “The Path that Ends AIDS: 2023 UNAIDS Global Update” outlines a possible end to the AIDS epidemic.
In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.