Part 1: What Leaders Can Learn From the People Who Are Leaving the Church | An Interview with Jeff Strong
Leading Saints PodcastShow Notes
Jeff Strong worked nearly 30 years in the consumer products industry as a senior executive at Procter & Gamble and global president and chief customer officer at Johnson & Johnson. He then taught in the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University and worked as an advisor to the Church before serving as a mission leader in the Arkansas Bentonville Mission.
Jeff has since spent several years doing research on why people are leaving the Church. He recently published the book Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn from Them. Jeff lives in Midway, Utah, and stays busy with a little lavender farm, some business consulting, and enjoying family.
Links Listen to Part 2: What Leaders Can Learn From the People Who Are Leaving the Church Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn from Them What to Say When Loved Ones Leave the Church | An Interview with Jeff Strong and Joseph Grenny The Data Behind Church Culture | An Interview with Jeff Strong TornByJeffStrong.com Instagram: @tornbyjeffstrong Facebook Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights 00:02:42 - Competing Narratives in Church Growth and Disaffiliation 00:04:22 - Personal Connection to Disaffiliation 00:06:36 - The Journey to Understanding Disaffiliation 00:09:05 - The Role of Data and Personal Experience 00:10:54 - The Complexity of Disaffiliation 00:12:11 - The Challenge of Measuring Disaffiliation 00:15:09 - Research Methodology and Findings 00:17:29 - Understanding the Audience for "Torn" 00:19:30 - The Importance of Accurate Understanding 00:20:36 - Celebrating Strengths While Facing Challenges 00:22:03 - The Impact of Local vs. Global Growth 00:25:41 - The Role of Missionary Work [CORRECTION: Jeff's rough estimate of 275,000 baptisms per year is the GLOBAL number. The U.S. number is a portion of that.] 00:27:06 - The Need for a Balanced Perspective 00:29:26 - The Misconception of Resurgence Among Young People 00:31:03 - The Data on Disaffiliation 00:35:02 - The Four Waves of Disaffiliation 00:40:53 - Wave One: Lifestyle and Depletion 00:43:17 - Personal Anecdote on Depletion and Church Experience 00:44:19 - Wave Two: Doubt and Disbelief 00:46:05 - Wave Three: Cultural and Social Factors 00:48:12 - Wave Four: Institutional Issues 00:50:00 - The Importance of Understanding and Addressing Disaffiliation Key Insights
Competing Narratives: The church is experiencing growth in certain areas, such as baptisms and missionary work, but disaffiliation remains a significant concern, with many individuals quietly stepping away from their faith. Personal Connection: Jeff shares his personal journey of grappling with his son's disaffiliation, highlighting the emotional impact and the need for a deeper understanding of why individuals leave the church. Research Findings: Jeff's research indicates that approximately 40% of active members have disaffiliated since 2000, with various reasons categorized into "waves," including lifestyle challenges and deeper faith crises. Cultural Dynamics: The discussion emphasizes the importance of recognizing the cultural pressures within the church that may lead to feelings of depletion rather than spiritual fulfillment for some members. Engagement vs. Disaffiliation: While many active members report strong engagement and purpose, a significant portion of young adults are less affiliated with organized religion, indicating a complex relationship with faith.
Leadership Applications
Fostering Understanding: Leaders can benefit from understanding the reasons behind disaffiliation to create a more inclusive and supportive environment for those struggling with their faith. Encouraging Open Dialogue: By promoting open conversations about faith challenges, leaders can help bridge the gap between those who feel fulfilled in their faith and those who are struggling. Addressing Cultural Pressures:
More from Leading Saints Podcast
James Fletcher is the founder and chief investment officer of Ethos Investment Management, and has been investing professionally in emerging markets for 20 years. He is also the founder of the global non-profit Young Investors Society, which provides lessons to teens on investing and financial literacy in over 3,000 high schools and 80 countries around the world. James has a bachelor’s degree in Finance from Brigham Young University and also teaches as a BYU adjunct professor in Finance. He has lived in a variety of places, from Boston to Brazil and Los Angeles to Hong Kong, and currently lives in Springville, Utah, with his wife and five children, where he serves as a bishop in the Hobble Creek Springville Utah Stake.
Brigham Young University professor and religious folklorist Christopher Blythe discusses the nature of revelation, spiritual manifestations, and claims to mysticism within Latter-day Saint history and culture. The conversation examines how members and leaders can evaluate personal spiritual experiences, navigate claims of revelation that exceed proper authority, and guard against deceptive influences or speculative practices.
Shawn Vanderhoven is the author of the USA Today bestseller Pause: How to Lead Brilliant Work in a Busy World and a Partner at The Wiseman Group, where he leads the executive development practice for senior leaders and rising talent. A collaborator on the New York Times bestseller Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter (Second Edition), Shawn co-designs strategies that help organizations amplify their people, advising leaders at companies like Amazon, Alphabet, Adobe, Microsoft, and Salesforce. He holds a BS in History from Brigham Young University and lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with his wife, Anne, dedicated to helping leaders create the conditions where teams can focus on what matters most.
Davis Smith is the founder, chairman, and emeritus CEO of Cotopaxi, a Salt Lake City–based outdoor gear brand dedicated to poverty alleviation. Raised throughout Latin America, he developed a lifelong commitment to social impact after witnessing economic inequality firsthand. A serial e-commerce entrepreneur, Davis founded several successful ventures, including Brazil’s 2012 “Startup of the Year,” before building Cotopaxi into a global brand that has assisted millions living in poverty. He has served as a Presidential Leadership Scholar and a member of the United Nations Foundation’s Global Leadership Council.
Dave McCann is a veteran sportscaster, play-by-play announcer, and television anchor with decades of broadcasting experience across regional and national media. After graduating from Brigham Young University with a degree in broadcasting, he began his career as a college sports reporter for ABC’s Good Morning America before anchoring sports in Las Vegas for nearly 20 years. He later served as an evening news co-anchor for KSL-TV in Salt Lake City and became a prominent media personality for BYUtv, hosting pre- and post-game shows alongside lead play-by-play coverage for BYU football and basketball. McCann also writes sports commentary for the Deseret News and co-hosts the digital BYU sports talk show Y’s Guys. He currently serves as an elders quorum president.