DZ-122: Escalating Antagonism Across Genres

Listen to learn how thinking of your hero as the horror (for your villains) makes your script dynamic.

In this episode Chas, Stu and guest Kim Ho continue their exploration into the power(s) of antagonism and how focusing on them can develop story.

While Part 1 looked at the horror film SINNERS, in Part 2 we venture into genres beyond horror with the action-thriller REBEL RIDGE, and the comedy classic MEET THE PARENTS.

To both these films we apply the generative story framework TOMBS (Transgression – Omens – Manifestation – Banishment – Slumber) and are surprised at just how well it maps. TOMBS comes from the MOTHERSHIP sci-fi horror table-top role-playing game. Which we love.

We explore how TOMBS, and thinking about antagonism in general, allows writers to deepen their understanding of their characters, their relationship of the heroes with the antagonists, and generate story fuel in a way that escalates the story.

We discuss how thinking of your hero as the horror for your villains helps everything become more dynamic.

Oh, and we talk about launching an actual play podcast. Which is happening. Stay tuned!

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

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→ Read the transcript for this episode.

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"There's a great line from Don Johnson later where he says, the deal was fair. The issue is that you felt that you were allowed to offer it. He tells him that he has transgressed against the rules of the laws or the rules of this system of this world." — Chas Fisher @ 00:12:09

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CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:12 – Escalating Antagonism Part 2

00:03:29 – REBEL RIDGE

00:09:30 – › Writing loglines from the antagonist's perspective

00:14:36 – › Tombs cycle maps onto hero and villain escalation

00:25:07 – › Solve, survive, save structure in action films

00:33:16 – › Self-restraint as survival within systemic corruption

00:45:30 – MEET THE PARENTS

00:51:55 – › Greg's lying as the true transgression engine

00:57:41 – › Structural turning points and escalating disaster beats

01:01:28 – › Jack versus Greg's insecurity as twin sources of antagonism

01:19:33 – › Applying TOMBS structure to map omens and manifestation

01:30:29 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up

01:34:38 – › Mapping antagonism sources to escalate story conflict

01:38:53 – › Expanding beyond Western storytelling structures

01:41:38 – Thanks to our Patreons

FILMS

REBEL RIDGE (2024) — (w) Jeremy Saulnier

MEET THE PARENTS (2000) — (w) Jim Herzfeld, John Hamburg (d) Jay Roach

LINKS

IMDB: Kim Ho

Explore: Mothership

YouTube: The Philosophy of Final Destination

Read: The Philosophy of Horror or Paradoxes of the Heart by Noël Carroll

YouTube: GinnyDI - "This Game used 5 steps to scare the crap out of me"

Listen: 1dZ-01: Arkyvrs - A Mansion Most Vile - Ep1

EPISODES IN THE ESCALATING ANTAGONISM SERIES

DZ-121: Escalating Antagonism in SINNERS

DZ-122: Escalating Antagonism Across Genres

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-49: Antagonists! 1 - vs Humans

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We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2025/dz-122/