Systems Provocateur with Dr. Luke Roberts

What if researchers could learn as much from what people do with their hands as from what they say? Lou talks with Dane DeSutter and Stephanie Scopelitis, authors of the forthcoming Body Talk: Using Gestures to Rethink Human-Centered Products, about the overlooked role gestures play in research, communication, and design. Drawing on backgrounds spanning learning science, dance, music, and product research, Dane and Stephanie explain how gestures can reveal mental models, clarify ideas that are difficult to put into words, and give researchers new opportunities to dig deeper. Rather than relying on intuition alone, they argue that researchers can learn to observe gestures systematically—and use their own gestures intentionally to support richer interactions. Through examples involving everything from justice to data integration, they show how paying closer attention to the body can uncover insights that words alone might miss—and ultimately help designers create products that make more sense to the people using them.

As organizations race to automate with AI, the most important question may not be what machines can do, but what they should do. Lou talks with cognitive neuroscientist and UX researcher Stef Hutka, author of the forthcoming Rosenfeld Media book What Your Machines Should Do: The Science and Strategy of Human-Centered Automation, about how teams can make more thoughtful decisions about automation. Stef introduces the Autonomy Decision Matrix, a framework that asks teams to evaluate automation along two dimensions: Could you automate it? and Should you automate it? Using examples from augmented reality and AI-powered customer service, she explains why technical feasibility alone isn’t enough — and how shared frameworks can help leaders and practitioners make better decisions together. The conversation ultimately makes the case for “humanist automation”: using technology to extend human capabilities rather than simply replace people. Stef will continue exploring that idea as a curator of the human-centered tooling track at Rosenfeld Media’s upcoming Shift UX 2026, where she and the speakers will examine how our tools are reshaping not only products, but organizations, communities, and society.

What if uncertainty isn’t something UX professionals need to survive — but an opportunity to reshape what comes next? Catt Small and Lou explore how designers can reclaim agency at a moment when familiar roles, tools, and assumptions about the industry are shifting. Drawing on her own evolution from web designer to staff designer, Catt argues that career paths aren’t fixed: designers can identify where they bring the most value and help shape roles around their strengths. Catt and Lou discuss why today’s upheaval isn’t entirely new, how experimentation can help designers navigate ambiguity, and why the optimism that once surrounded technology has become more complicated. They also explore design’s role within the realities of business—and why making things better sometimes means slowing down, adding friction, asking harder questions, and helping organizations make more thoughtful decisions. Catt, who will open the inaugural Shift UX conference, ultimately offers a hopeful message: even in uncertain times, designers have agency—and uncertainty can be an ideal time to make meaningful moves. What You'll Learn from this Episode:

As UX roles and titles continue to shift, the ability to make sense of complexity may matter more than ever. Lou talks with information architect, author, and longtime collaborator Abby Covert about how her work evolved from information architecture into the broader practice of sensemaking—and why she believes that work extends far beyond people with “IA” in their job titles. Abby also offers a preview of Shift UX, Rosenfeld Media’s hybrid conference on September 24–25, where she is one of the main curators. She explains how the event itself is being redesigned to move away from “design theater”: speakers will share the stage, dedicated sensemakers will connect ideas across talks, and the audience will become part of the conversation. The conversation explores Abby’s Sensemakers Club, the importance of creating genuine community, and her new book, Timeless Sensemaking for Modern Sensemakers. Throughout, Abby makes the case that sensemaking isn’t simply about organizing information—it’s also about understanding people, adapting how we communicate, and helping others turn complexity into something they can actually use.

Product management is changing fast — and according to Julia Barham, many PMs are being pushed to the “left,” beyond delivery work into deeper discovery, customer insight, and strategic thinking. Julia joins Lou to discuss her forthcoming book, The Product Management Playbook: Create, Ship, and Optimize Winning Products, and why modern product managers need broader, end-to-end skills to thrive. Julia explains how AI and automation are reducing the amount of manual coordination and backlog management product managers traditionally handled — creating both anxiety and opportunity. As delivery work becomes easier, PMs are increasingly expected to spend more time understanding customers, validating ideas, collaborating across disciplines, and driving outcomes instead of simply shipping features. She also argues that great product managers succeed not because they know everything, but because they cultivate curiosity, build strong partnerships, and continuously learn across business, design, data, technology, and customer domains. The conversation also explores why many product managers feel disempowered inside organizations, the growing overlap between product and UX research, and how self-education, mentorship, and optimism can help professionals adapt during an uncertain AI-driven transition.